29
   

Rising fascism in the US

 
 
Lash
 
  -2  
Thu 10 Nov, 2022 12:53 pm
The debacle of government misinformation, disinformation, malinformation, and the cover-up.

Never again let your government convince you to target other Americans to help them cover lies.

Way to go, UK.

https://youtu.be/GYFYq0xEAjQ

0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  4  
Thu 10 Nov, 2022 02:05 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
What was considered disinformation which would result not long ago in censorship from social media platforms is now widely accepted as true.


Since the exact origin of the virus remains unknown it's hard to see how this hypothesis could be seen as "disinformation". Wide acceptance doesn't confer objective truth, but it's difficult to see, in this case, how believing in one origin rather than another would affect public health as either type of event could spread pathogens.

Thomas R. Wells wrote:
(...)

Mill argued that there are positive externalities to other people's freedom of expression: the chance for us to improve our own beliefs and to better understand them. I have argued that this cannot be assumed for objective truths in the way that it may be for opinions about ethics or politics. Proponents of pluralism are wrong when they argue for 'letting a thousand flowers bloom' - that the presence of vaccine-autism or holocaust-denial claims in public discourse enhances a society's quality of debate and hence understanding on these topics. Democratic debate is exactly the wrong way to treat claims about rational truths and facts. At the least, there is no good reason to encourage such pluralism.

In fact there may be negative externalities if false claims are publicised and individuals are unable to evaluate their truth. There may be direct harm, as when children die of measles because their parents read in newspapers that there really is a debate among doctors about whether MMR vaccines cause autism. There may be indirect harm if people come to believe that because they can't evaluate truth claims themselves the truth itself must be a matter of opinion (e.g. the politicisation of climate science).

(...)

source

It's hard to see what social damage believing in a lab origin versus believing in a zoonotic transmission of covid could do. And as far as I know, this discussion hasn't been flagged as disinformation.

Quote:
Mill also argued that the exercise of refuting even false claims provides the valuable benefit of improving our own understanding of the truth, by having to think it through for ourselves. Thus, in refuting false claims about climate science, you would presumably come to better understand the scientific credibility of proper climate science.

Is this plausible? Climate science goes back over a century and integrates the refined expertise of dozens of distinct scientific disciplines and sub-disciplines, from meteorology to physics to biochemistry to computer modelling to statistics, as well as specialised techniques such as for analysing pre-historic temperature records from ice-cores or preserved pine-cones. Just how much of this are we required to master in order to claim to be 'thinking for ourselves' in rejecting heterodoxy? Bear in mind that the proponents of these ideas may dedicate their lives to coming up with detailed and complex arguments and defences for their positions, and a truly open minded engagement with them would be extraordinarily demanding. And don't we have other things to do with our lives, including other heterodox claims to refute?

Just treating claims about the truth as contributions to the democratic market for ideas in the first place distorts their character and assessment. It suggests that we should treat such claims as opinions, and engage in constructive mutually respectful debate about them, as if they were of the same kind as other people's opinions about immigration reform or the Republican presidential nomination. But unlike those subjects, the claims of climate science [or a lab leak] do not depend on how agreeable they seem to us. Thinking that is so allows an invasion of truth status by political status.

ibid
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  4  
Thu 10 Nov, 2022 02:42 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

Reports from friends of Assange reveal worsening mental and physical health. I’m afraid even if he were released today, he’d never recover.

Because he revealed facts about people in power.

A journalist.

Many of those people are still in power.


No. He was a blackmailer and a trader in state secrets. If he's innocent, let him have his day in court. Like Daniel Ellsworth or Chelsea Manning did.
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Thu 10 Nov, 2022 02:57 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

I’m a plain-speaking honest speaker pulling no punches.
You have an overriding agenda and refuse to honestly entertain my statements.

You are a bad faith actor in this conversation. You have lots of company.






Plainly speaking: you are too full of it to take seriously. You wouldn't know a fact if it spit in your face.

Plain speaking by itself is no virtue, and neither is ignoring inconvenient facts. You are an extremely dishonest and unresponsive "debater".

Your inability to get it in your head that a whacko RW Q-boy hit an 84-year-old man in the head and fracturing his skull is without excuse.

The attacker was indicted on Federal charges today. Do you really think there are any secrets about this attack that aren't known?
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Thu 10 Nov, 2022 02:59 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

Brendan, I’m going to have to put you on the permanent kybosh for that filthy business.

Please stop hating humanity, but do that elsewhere.

Padre Hijo y el Espiritu Santo




Don't you get it? You're the vinegar that attracts that sort of insect. He was agreeing with you!!!
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -2  
Thu 10 Nov, 2022 06:40 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
I’m one of many people who doubted the public got the whole truth because of glaring inconsistencies from cop reports and media.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Fri 11 Nov, 2022 02:51 am
@bobsal u1553115,
bobsal u1553115 wrote:

If he's innocent, let him have his day in court. Like Daniel Ellsworth or Chelsea Manning did.


An Australian court.

He is not a US citizen and should not be subject to US laws.

You have no right to inflict your laws on us.

It's imperialist, anti democratic and an assault on another country's independence.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Fri 11 Nov, 2022 07:51 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
An Australian court.
He is not a US citizen and should not be subject to US laws.
You have no right to inflict your laws on us.
It's imperialist, anti democratic and an assault on another country's independence.

Why were you trying to inflict your laws on Anne Sacoolas then? She isn't a UK citizen.

Assange should have been tried in a Swedish court, but unfortunately the far left thinks that it is OK to rape people and helped him to evade justice.

I don't see how his US charges will ever stand up in court. They are pretty flimsy. But maybe if Assange spends five or six years in a high security UK prison while he fights extradition to the US, that will be some small measure of justice for the women that he raped.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Fri 11 Nov, 2022 08:46 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
Why were you trying to inflict your laws on Anne Sacoolas then? She isn't a UK citizen.
She drove the car and killed Harry Dunn with it in England, not in an area of US extra-territorial jurisdiction.
Sacoolas was an employee of the CIA, thus her claim for diplomatic immunity was considered obsolete.

On 20 October 2022 the Old Bailey heard and accepted Sacoolas's plea of guilty.
Lash
 
  -3  
Fri 11 Nov, 2022 08:49 am
Julian Assange has already been murdered by the Obama administration. His body has not yet shut down.

And, now for a bit of rising fascism.

It’s fitting to join mention of Julian Assange, martyr to free speech, with the following case that represents the first rock thrown at the growing Democrat Party-bolstered, authoritarian US beast.

On Facebook, a US citizen mocked his local police station.

Mocking and complaining about our government and systems has always been appropriate and one of our so-called inalienable rights. But, lately as you know, with the advent of fun Nazi terms like misinformation disinformation and whatever the **** else words Democrats want to invent to shut down questions and criticism so they can go about robbing and murdering with no backtalk, the previously mentioned police station arrested the mocking citizen.

And, now it’s on like donkey kong.

I’ll bring back the story and some of my favorite responses after breakfast.

Edit: Even more bizarre than this **** slide to Soviet speech gulags is the fact that The Onion has joined suit in what will likely be the most vitally important cases to ever be argued in this country.

oralloy
 
  -4  
Fri 11 Nov, 2022 09:36 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
She drove the car and killed Harry Dunn with it in England, not in an area of US extra-territorial jurisdiction.

And Assange committed his rapes in Sweden.


Walter Hinteler wrote:
Sacoolas was an employee of the CIA, thus her claim for diplomatic immunity was considered obsolete.

Her claim was just fine. But that's beside the point. Izzythepush was suggesting that people who are not US citizens should not be subject to US laws.

That would imply that people who are not UK citizens should not be subject to UK laws.


Walter Hinteler wrote:
On 20 October 2022 the Old Bailey heard and accepted Sacoolas's plea of guilty.

Agreed.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -4  
Fri 11 Nov, 2022 09:37 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
Julian Assange has already been murdered by the Obama administration. His body has not yet shut down.

Imprisoning a rapist isn't murder.


Lash wrote:
Julian Assange, martyr to free speech

No. Assange is a martyr to rapists.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Fri 11 Nov, 2022 09:44 am
The Onion Supreme Court Amicus Brief
“Stop making our parodies headlines.”

https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/22/22-293/242292/20221003125252896_35295545_1-22.10.03%20-%20Novak-Parma%20-%20Onion%20Amicus%20Brief.pdf
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Fri 11 Nov, 2022 09:55 am
https://amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/sep/29/ohio-man-who-was-jailed-making-fun-police-online-t/

Ohio man who was jailed for making fun of police online takes First Amendment case to Supreme Court
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Fri 11 Nov, 2022 04:19 pm
Glenn Greenwald

@ggreenwald
·
Sep 6
But the worst is watching people whose job title in corporate HR Departments is "journalist" take the lead in agitating for censorship. They exploit the platforms of corporate giants to pioneer increasingly dangerous means of banning dissenters. *These* are the authoritarians.
______________

Pinned Tweet

Glenn Greenwald

@ggreenwald
·
Sep 6
The regime of censorship being imposed on the internet – by a consortium of DC Dems, billionaire-funded "disinformation experts," the US Security State, and liberal employees of media corporations – is dangerously intensifying in ways I believe are not adequately understood.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ggreenwald
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Sun 13 Nov, 2022 05:53 am
https://able2know.org/topic/559057-10#post-7272885
My favorite comedian delivered an important monologue on SNL, facing censor and possible permanent cancellation, financial ruin.

For speaking about ‘taboo’ subjects in an increasingly authoritarian country.

He had to make a pre-authorized statement about anti-semitism—which I find deplorable.

I didn’t agree with everything he said, but I defend his right to say it.
Dropped a lot of truth bombs, as usual.

https://twitter.com/RedRollins1/status/1591761124772687873?s=20

izzythepush
 
  1  
Sun 13 Nov, 2022 06:12 am
Lash
 
  -1  
Sun 13 Nov, 2022 06:42 am
@izzythepush,
It’s supposed to be funny.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Sun 13 Nov, 2022 06:47 am
@Lash,
But it's not.

izzythepush
 
  1  
Sun 13 Nov, 2022 06:56 am
@izzythepush,
This is funny.

0 Replies
 
 

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