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Rising fascism in the US

 
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Tue 8 Nov, 2022 05:14 am
@BrendanG,
BrendanG wrote:
I could say that the NYT has been coming out with articles about holocausts of 6 million Jews since 1905, and some would call it fascist because it is true.

I would call it a lie because it is false.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Tue 8 Nov, 2022 12:02 pm
Reports from friends of Assange reveal worsening mental and physical health. I’m afraid even if he were released today, he’d never recover.

Because he revealed facts about people in power.

A journalist.

Many of those people are still in power.
vikorr
 
  2  
Tue 8 Nov, 2022 02:40 pm
@Lash,
Assanges treatment has without doubt been the most openly 'clandestine' hostile targetting of an individual for upsetting those in power that I've yet seen from the west:

- from the warrant to question a person for an allegation (even though they could have done it via skype, or telephone, or via statutory declaration)...not even a warrant that the country had enough evidence to arrest him...simply a warrant 'to question', I mean wtf?
- the another country enforcing such an absurd warrant
- to the 24hr guard they placed for years to 'catch a bail non-reportee' (there will be no precedent even close to this. Most, on a good day, would get half a days effort I reckon)
- to the US denying it was trying to extradite him (and later setting a sealed grand jury)
- to Britains 'we aren't doing this for the US'
....when clearly, it was a collaborative orchestration
oralloy
 
  -2  
Tue 8 Nov, 2022 04:59 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
Reports from friends of Assange reveal worsening mental and physical health. I’m afraid even if he were released today, he’d never recover.

I guess he shouldn't have gone around raping people.


Lash wrote:
Because he revealed facts about people in power.

Because he ran around raping people.


Lash wrote:
A journalist.

A rapist.


Lash wrote:
Many of those people are still in power.

Actually no. The only people that Assange ever outed were secret democracy activists working in totalitarian governments.

They were all purged from those totalitarian governments. None were killed. But none of them are now in any position to further the cause of global human rights.

Those dictatorships are now much more firmly entrenched thanks to Assange's help.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Tue 8 Nov, 2022 05:00 pm
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:
Assanges treatment has without doubt been the most openly 'clandestine' hostile targeting of an individual for upsetting those in power that I've yet seen from the west:

Or maybe it's that rape is a serious crime.


vikorr wrote:
- from the warrant to question a person for an allegation (even though they could have done it via skype, or telephone, or via statutory declaration)...not even a warrant that the country had enough evidence to arrest him...simply a warrant 'to question', I mean wtf?

I find it reasonable for the police to question rapists.


vikorr wrote:
- the another country enforcing such an absurd warrant

I do not share the opinion that it is absurd for the police to question rapists.


vikorr wrote:
- to the 24hr guard they placed for years to 'catch a bail non-reportee' (there will be no precedent even close to this. Most, on a good day, would get half a days effort I reckon)

Maybe the UK considers rape a more serious crime than you do.


vikorr wrote:
- to the US denying it was trying to extradite him (and later setting a sealed grand jury)

The US charges are frivolous. The real crimes were the rapes.


vikorr wrote:
- to Britains 'we aren't doing this for the US'

They were doing it for the rape victims.


vikorr wrote:
....when clearly, it was a collaborative orchestration

Nations collaborate from time to time when dealing with serious criminals.
Lash
 
  -1  
Tue 8 Nov, 2022 05:10 pm
@oralloy,
That didn’t happen.
The term rape, in this case due to the country the sex happened in, did not mean forced sex. It boiled down to a disagreement after sex about birth control method / rubber.

And last I heard even a legit nasty rape doesn’t earn years of torture and death.

But there was no rape.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Tue 8 Nov, 2022 05:18 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
That didn't happen.

The rape victims say it did.


Lash wrote:
The term rape, in this case due to the country the sex happened in, did not mean forced sex.

It means non-consensual sex.


Lash wrote:
It boiled down to a disagreement after sex about birth control method / rubber.

The women refused consent to unprotected sex both before and after.


Lash wrote:
And last I heard even a legit nasty rape doesn't earn years of torture and death.

The only thing that the authorities ever tried to do was apprehend him.

His conditions were entirely down to his choice to be a fugitive from justice.


Lash wrote:
But there was no rape.

That's not what the rape victims say.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  3  
Tue 8 Nov, 2022 06:51 pm
@oralloy,
You didnt bother reading my post did you. I have no issue with questioning - and mentioned several ways they could achieve their goals (skype, telephone, stat dec).

He had already denied the allegations, so he wasn't going to change his tune when they asked questions (and even so, they could do this via skype/telephone). This means, unless they had sufficient evidence to charge him, there was no valid reason to issue the warrant "for questioning". It is telling that Sweden eventually dropped the investigation (ie. they didn't have enough to charge him)

I have an issue with this being used, not for the purpose it supposedly is stated for, but as the first link in a chain to bring a person before a different countries court, on different charges (through yet another intermediary western country).


oralloy
 
  -2  
Tue 8 Nov, 2022 07:10 pm
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:
I have no issue with questioning - and mentioned several ways they could achieve their goals (skype, telephone, stat dec).
He had already denied the allegations, so he wasn't going to change his tune when they asked questions (and even so, they could do this via skype/telephone).

Quibbling over the method of questioning seems silly to me.


vikorr wrote:
This means, unless they had sufficient evidence to charge him, there was no valid reason to issue the warrant "for questioning".

That is questionable logic. But as it happens they had plenty of evidence to charge him. They had two women saying that they were raped.


vikorr wrote:
It is telling that Sweden eventually dropped the investigation (ie. they didn't have enough to charge him)

The charges were dropped because he successfully evaded justice until the statute of limitations ran out on his charges.


vikorr wrote:
I have an issue with this being used, not for the purpose it supposedly is stated for, but as the first link in a chain to bring a person before a different countries court, on different charges (through yet another intermediary western country).

The investigation in Sweden was about the rapes that occurred in Sweden.
vikorr
 
  3  
Tue 8 Nov, 2022 07:21 pm
@oralloy,
You seem to, yet again, be reading just what you want to hear into what I write.

Quote:
Quibbling over the method of questioning seems silly to me.
I couldn't agree more - so there was no need for them to issue a warrant 'for questioning' (you do realise he was happy to talk via phone or skype or similar, right)

Quote:
The charges were dropped because he successfully evaded justice until the statute of limitations ran out on his charges
This only partly correct:


The more serious allegations kept going, until Sweden admitted it didn't have enough evidence.
McGentrix
 
  -1  
Tue 8 Nov, 2022 10:09 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

Brendan, I’m going to have to put you on the permanent kybosh for that filthy business.

Please stop hating humanity, but do that elsewhere.

Padre Hijo y el Espiritu Santo


Sounds like something a whiny liberal would say because they were offended by someone else's speech. You could have just silently ignored them.
Lash
 
  -1  
Tue 8 Nov, 2022 10:34 pm
@McGentrix,
I think you might be right. It was late, I even think I misread it, but I think I wanted to distance myself from what I thought he meant.

I was mad at myself later on both counts.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Wed 9 Nov, 2022 08:12 am
@Lash,
Why be mad at yourself??

It seems reasonable to me for people to distance themselves from neonazis when they start denying the Holocaust.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Wed 9 Nov, 2022 08:13 am
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:
I couldn't agree more - so there was no need for them to issue a warrant 'for questioning' (you do realise he was happy to talk via phone or skype or similar, right)

If you agree that quibbling over their method of questioning is silly, then why are you quibbling over their method of questioning??


vikorr wrote:
The more serious allegations kept going, until Sweden admitted it didn't have enough evidence.

That's not a reasonable summary of what Sweden said.

A reasonable summary of what Sweden said was that witness memories were no longer reliable evidence due to the long passage of time.

That long passage of time was of course due to the fact that Assange successfully evaded justice for so many years.
vikorr
 
  3  
Wed 9 Nov, 2022 07:31 pm
@oralloy,
vikorr wrote:
I couldn't agree more - so there was no need for them to issue a warrant 'for questioning' (you do realise he was happy to talk via phone or skype or similar, right)
oralloy wrote:
If you agree that quibbling over their method of questioning is silly, then why are you quibbling over their method of questioning??

You're still reading only what you want to - I asnwered your question in the same sentence you quoted. This is the 3rd time you've done this type of behaviour.

Quote:
That long passage of time was of course due to the fact that Assange successfully evaded justice for so many years.
Agreeing to answer questions over skype or phone isn't evading justice. It is giving the investigators what they need to continue the investigation. You've already said we shouldn't quibble over the method of questioning, so you should have no issue with Sweden doing it this way...but they didn't want to, and that is the only thing that stalled their case.

You agreed with this sentiment - that quibbling over the pathway for questioning is silly, yet you keep arguing as if the warrant was needed to question him (as that is what the warrant was issued for - only to question him)




At the end of the day, the DNA won't change, the complaints versions wont change (they will have been captured early on)...so what can possibly change in the evidence? Nothing really. And we know they didnt have enough evidence to arrest him because it would have been a arrest warrant to face charges, rather than one to face questioning.

I'm not generally one for conspiracies, but I've no doubt in the world that this was one.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Wed 9 Nov, 2022 08:47 pm
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:
You've already said we shouldn't quibble over the method of questioning, so you should have no issue with Sweden doing it this way...but they didn't want to, and that is the only thing that stalled their case.

This idea of having criminals decide for the police how the police will conduct their investigations certainly is novel.


vikorr wrote:
You agreed with this sentiment - that quibbling over the pathway for questioning is silly, yet you keep arguing as if the warrant was needed to question him (as that is what the warrant was issued for - only to question him)

I didn't argue that it was necessary. (It may well have been necessary, but I am not presently aware of that necessity.)

But necessary or not, it was the method that Sweden chose.


vikorr wrote:
At the end of the day, the DNA won't change, the complaints versions wont change (they will have been captured early on)...so what can possibly change in the evidence? Nothing really.

What changes is memories fade.


vikorr wrote:
And we know they didnt have enough evidence to arrest him because it would have been a arrest warrant to face charges, rather than one to face questioning.

We actually don't know that. You are making an assumption.


vikorr wrote:
I'm not generally one for conspiracies, but I've no doubt in the world that this was one.

A conspiracy of law enforcement agencies to prevent rapists from getting away with their crimes.
vikorr
 
  2  
Wed 9 Nov, 2022 09:04 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
We actually don't know that. You are making an assumption.
At this point in time, after several times where you read just want you wanted to read into my posts, and this latest post - it has become clear that you want to hear & see what you want to hear and see. This thread can get back to its original intent.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Wed 9 Nov, 2022 09:18 pm
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:
At this point in time, after several times where you read just want you wanted to read into my posts, and this latest post - it has become clear that you want to hear & see what you want to hear and see.

No. What I do is point out facts that you don't want to see.

Like the fact that Assange's misfortunes are the result of his own actions and are exactly what he deserves.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Thu 10 Nov, 2022 11:28 am
For posterity.

What was considered disinformation which would result not long ago in censorship from social media platforms is now widely accepted as true.

Try not to forget this when the next disinformation accusations start popping off.

https://youtu.be/EaJt5jC5gbY
Lash
 
  -1  
Thu 10 Nov, 2022 12:12 pm
A rolling, revealing conversation between Briahna Joy Gray and Chris Hedges about Assange, Snowden, Democrats, AOC, free speech, Trump, Bernie, everything.

https://youtu.be/tWYmBVxUvDc

0 Replies
 
 

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