Back in the singles' club again

dagmaraka wrote:

Meanwhile, this guy:

"When can I see you again?"

~butterflies~ feeling like i'm 15 all over again.

Yet another good starting point. I'm glad to hear it, and crossing my fingers for both of you.

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oy, he's so direct and mature... i so suck at this. he's offering to come to boston, i don't think i'm ready for that though. That's ok, right? i usually just say yes to anything and then feel resentful, i'm gonna have to try to explain while not making him feel unwanted. ack.

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Yeah, that is OK. Much healthier to avoid the resentment part.

Glad he's all mature 'n' stuff, that makes things easier.

If it's because you're not ready for that yet, just say as much. You seem to really like him, say that too (if it's true). Emphasize the "yet" to take the edge off. And be appreciative of his efforts (if you are).

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...and so i told him that's too much for me right now and that i'll be happy to visit in new york again (where i have an option of staying with a friend). i hope that won't be a big disappointment to him..but my stomach turns as soon as i imagine him being here for 3 days or so. plus, i have roommates, it's awkward.

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sozobe wrote:

Yeah, that is OK. Much healthier to avoid the resentment part.

Glad he's all mature 'n' stuff, that makes things easier.

If it's because you're not ready for that yet, just say as much. You seem to really like him, say that too (if it's true). Emphasize the "yet" to take the edge off. And be appreciative of his efforts (if you are).

thanks, soz. i added a little appreciative note. how easy it's to forget and focus on self.

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I'm skeptical of explaining why you're not ready. Emotions like this come from the gut, and don't lend themselves to being backed up with arguments. If you're not ready, you're not ready, and that's all the explaining you need.

Instead of explaining, you could soften your "no, I'm not ready" by suggesting an alternative in return. Can you think of a scenario that you are ready for, and under which he still gets to see you? By suggesting this scenario to him, you protect your boundaries and at the same time give him a sense of what he can safely suggest in the future. It seems to me that this approach would make life easier for both of you.

Good luck again, whatever you decide.

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Ah. You thought of it before I did. Good for you!

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I hear you, Thomas. Luckily this guy is scarily understanding ("Time is yours" he says)... I feel like when I get to see him in New York, knowing I can flee (not that I would) when I need to, it would be easier. If he comes to my place, I'd feel trapped.... not that it makes much difference in reality, but in my head it does.

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Deep breaths, Girl, deep breaths.
Have fun. (Remember fun?) It'll go like it's gonna go. Enjoy the ride.

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dagmaraka wrote:

"Past is never dead; it's not even past" - by W. Faulkner.

Maybe Faulkner was wrong.

Dealing with the past is one thing.

Overdealing with it is another.

How can one determine if they're ready to "move on" if they don't try it?

You've heard the phrase "paralysis by analysis".

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dagmaraka wrote:

I hear you, Thomas. Luckily this guy is scarily understanding ("Time is yours" he says)... I feel like when I get to see him in New York, knowing I can flee (not that I would) when I need to, it would be easier. If he comes to my place, I'd feel trapped.... not that it makes much difference in reality, but in my head it does.

I can't believe you are talking about our secret love on a public website like this! It is so over between us!

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Now, now, Kicky. Not so fast...

Find a rock.

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Chai wrote:

dagmaraka wrote:
"Past is never dead; it's not even past" - by W. Faulkner.

Maybe Faulkner was wrong.

Dealing with the past is one thing.

Overdealing with it is another.

How can one determine if they're ready to "move on" if they don't try it?

You've heard the phrase "paralysis by analysis".

Yes, of course I've heard. This is what I do for work, this is my job, so I do have solid footing in history and memory, if I may say so myself. The point is to get unstuck, not to be stuck in history. That needs a pretty active approach and there are complex methodologies we developed for dealing with it.....but that's an entirely different subject, although it does come from family therapy, actually.

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kickycan wrote:

dagmaraka wrote:
I hear you, Thomas. Luckily this guy is scarily understanding ("Time is yours" he says)... I feel like when I get to see him in New York, knowing I can flee (not that I would) when I need to, it would be easier. If he comes to my place, I'd feel trapped.... not that it makes much difference in reality, but in my head it does.

I can't believe you are talking about our secret love on a public website like this! It is so over between us!

not before i say so!

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dagmaraka wrote:

Chai wrote:
dagmaraka wrote:
"Past is never dead; it's not even past" - by W. Faulkner.

Maybe Faulkner was wrong.

Dealing with the past is one thing.

Overdealing with it is another.

How can one determine if they're ready to "move on" if they don't try it?

You've heard the phrase "paralysis by analysis".

Yes, of course I've heard. This is what I do for work, this is my job, so I do have solid footing in history and memory, if I may say so myself. The point is to get unstuck, not to be stuck in history. That needs a pretty active approach and there are complex methodologies we developed for dealing with it.....but that's an entirely different subject, although it does come from family therapy, actually.

That's intereresting....as a family therapist, I'd love it if you could briefly describe the "complex methodologies". I know the schools pretty well, so a few keywords would likely do it, if you are kind and generous enough to oblige my curiosity. If it's too irksome, no problems.

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dagmaraka wrote:

Yes, of course I've heard. This is what I do for work, this is my job, so I do have solid footing in history and memory, if I may say so myself. The point is to get unstuck, not to be stuck in history. That needs a pretty active approach and there are complex methodologies we developed for dealing with it.....but that's an entirely different subject, although it does come from family therapy, actually.

Again, not meaning this in an argumentative way....

Dag....your immediatley saying 'of course you've heard' 'this is what I do for work, this is my job.....complex methodologies for dealing with it',

is just showing you are IMO too intwined with the concept that everything has to be worked out with complex methodolgies...involving an active approach...

I used to like peanut butter & jelly sandwiches....at some point along the line, I stopped liking them. I didn't need a complex methodology or an active approach to figure out why, or what it all meant....I just accepted I didn't like peanut butter and jelly sandwiches any longer.

You might feel insulted in my comparing a love relationship either being over and moving on, or letting a new one develop, with peanut butter, but seriously, a lot of the time it's no more complex than that.

I decided a long time ago I could make my life as complicated as I could, or let it be as simple as I wanted it.

When I love someone, I don't question why, I just love them.

If I realize my feelings have changed toward that someone, and they've moved on as well, I accept it as part of life.

Doesn't make me any less intelligent, makes me smart enough to enjoy life without too much to worry about.

Life's as difficult as you make it. You want difficult, you got it.

I may not have a methodology, but I've got love.

"I'm not a smart man, but I know what love is"....forrest gump.

"I guess that's all I have to say about that".....ibid.

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I hear you, chai. But, different strokes for different blokes. I never just decide on something without analyzing why. I know why I love people, it takes me a long time to get there and I do analyze a lot - too much for your taste, but just enough for mine. That's the beauty of human being, every single one of them is different.
And I know what works for me won't work for someone else, which is also totally fine.

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dlowan wrote:

That's intereresting....as a family therapist, I'd love it if you could briefly describe the "complex methodologies". I know the schools pretty well, so a few keywords would likely do it, if you are kind and generous enough to oblige my curiosity. If it's too irksome, no problems.

This would warrant a thread of its own, since we're getting into conflict resolution theory...but just for starters our point of departure was narrative mediation. We applied it to identity conflicts and working with groups rather than pairs. Essentially we adapted Winslade&Monk to groups in step1, tested it in a few long term village dialogue projects in Israel and Cambodia.

From there we developed more nuanced step by step methodologies for a) village dialogues (that actually move well beyond dialogue and include memorialization projects, field trips, work with psychosocial therapists....) and b)for cross-conflict dialogue. Here we developed an approach we call "historical timelines" that get the two groups to address specifically the most 'alive' portions of public memories, write down timelines for events relating to the conflict from the perspective of each group, present them to each other and then analyze the outcome - which is always the same - essentially it's a realization that the two stories are equal in their value, that they are selective (we ask them to look at the timelines from a perspective of an outside observer, and usually the timelines don't overlap in more than one or two events...of 20-30 events written down), that they serve a purpose (each story justifies our existence, shows our 'mission'), that they are similar in terms of ours being glorifying of us and very negative about the 'other...... Conclusion that groups arrive at are crucial - that 'truth' (who did what to whom) is not the end-goal we are striving for... It is about acknowledgment, validation, humanizing of the 'other', realizing the constructivist nature of collective memory and role it plays in identity formation and finding out where emotions that enter current conflict come from, thus being able to address them better.... Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera..... It works wonders, actually.

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Eh, so long story short...it comes back to narrative mediation as the goals are similar -- it still is about narratives, validation, finding "unique accounts" (moments when there was peace and good relations) and mapping "unique outcomes" (moments of agreement and progress within the dialogue itself); separating people from the problem, etc. etc..... So lo and behold I'd say it's still applied (very applied) narrative mediation approach.

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I got to say that I once gathered all this written stuff together from an ex, went up on the roof of my rowhome apartment, and had a lovely fire.
In a metal box. Which I still have, all cleaned out and holding other better memory stuff from that time and a few years later...
Now the few times I do open it, I still get a whiff of smoke and it makes me proud of myself.

I get what you're saying about the ex.
I understand the beating yourself up for allowing someone to treat you badly.
What I'm saying is that you can turn it around. You can free yourself by finding a way to let it all go. Forgive yourself. It'll make you stronger and that'll make you proud of yourself....

Yeah, yeah, easier said then done.

But you're still punishing yourself for being an idiot.

(At least I think you are cause it sounds like some of what I do... I could be wrong. So go burn something, it can't hurt.)

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Back in the singles' club again

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