Back in the singles' club again

Wellllllllll, Dag.

I fell thuddingly in love, never ever get over in love, twice, one of those at 21 and next time at 29. Enthusiastically in long term lust but knew he was wrong, wrong, wrong, once, 31, would have zinged back to numero due if that were possible. In love/loving but not berserko with my future husband (34), married him at 37. Happy as clams for the majority of our years together. Unhappy for some years, long story, don't really want to elaborate on. Divorce when I was 59, gaaaaah.

I still remember those first two well. Exceptionally smart, and even wise, men. I'm still in contact with numero due, we found each other ten years later, when I figured out what made no sense, that he was gay. Friends now twenty years since then. Nobody on a2k has ever believed me when I've written, very very occasionally, that a gay man was one of my best lovers. I think they figure I've been horribly deprived, when I, of course, know better and grin.

Numero uno, I've found online, pleased with what he's done with his life. Haven't tried to contact him. I know about the woman he was with and stayed with just after me, and she fits him and his interests far better than I ever would have. They're still together, I've no shimmers of jealousy. If I ever in my mind talk with him, I'd thank him for such a joyful start to love.

Numero tre, for purposes of this account - we fizzled after a couple of years, mutually. Also talked with him on the phone a few years ago now, thirty years later, when I was trying to find someone else's phone number and thought, what the hell, he'll know. Great conversation, no regrets, shared happy memories, put down the phone laughing, exhilarated, but not of course going to call him again. Among other reasons, he recently married again, and, he's still as wrong in different ways as he was in the first place. So, just good feelings, a kind of continuity, for both of us.

My husband, we've accommodated to our changes. I don't want to hear about his new wife; well, not much. Little dab'll do me. On the other hand, I don't want him back. There is no charge left between us, but continuing regard. I meet him when I go to LA, just like I meet other friends. He travelled to north north to see where I was situated. We talk on the phone about once a month, fairly long catch up conversations.

Will you get over monster? I'm thinking five years.

Life is rich. Be patient.

Thank, osso. That is precisely the perspective I was hoping for. I know that I will never regret being with the Monster. I also do know that no relationship will ever be that romantic again (I won't ever be 20 again, and I've grown to be such a skeptical doubting creature) and I am fine with that. All I hope for is someone I can Respect. From the bottom of my heart. I've had boyfriends who were adorable, smart, funny, whathaveyou. I like every single one of my ex-es. After all, I'm not dumb. I've been with all of them for good reason. But I want a Man, a Man that I can Respect. Where are they? I haven't met one for years.

I'll admit they don't grow on trees.

I've also had a couple of discerning men tell me, in an informational way, that one can love anybody. (Having more to do with timing, a certain coincidence of factors, yadda yadda, than that there is only one out there.)
I demurred. Not that I think there is only one, but that genuine connectivity is not just a weather phenomenon.

At this point, I don't know. I still don't think so.

getchya.

I, too, weaver inbetween. I know that, for example, my parents' relationship is based on mutual respect more than anything else. My father has been married before he married my mom, and she had a flaming 5 years long first love before she married him. I know they did have a genuine love affair, but for most of my life, their relationship was based on deep mutual respect.

Which I think is possible even without all the butterflies and sleepless nights. And I have great respect for my parents relationship, which is by far not a standard marriage relationship.
But times are changing, too. My mother, for example, could not stay single comfortably. I can. So the man to find has to be extra special or else it's not worth my time. It has gotten to the point that my own mother (a family therapist who is frighteningly always right!) tells me to seek out male companions, to live a little! To not worry about reputation and enjoy life some! Whose mother tells her daughter to seek out male company for fun? The more the merrier?

Well, I did that too, in a fit of late sixties/early seventies sexual freedom mixed with old catholic girl stuff mixed with personal despair mixed with instant gratification need. I refuse to apologize. I stopped because I got tired of it, not for moral/philosophic/ethical reasons. Plus, I was too busy. I don't consider myself less for all that. It was pretty enjoyable as a phase. <Watch those oldies who seem to post wisely, they're probably loose.>

I still agree with the extra special part. We're probably victims of the extra special inculcation by ourselves to ourselves. Or, maybe, have never wanted to give up our own power unless on a share basis with the person we cottoned onto with respect. For me it was an old catholic school thing, as in, geez, if I have to obey him, he'd better be super. While I'm well over all that palaver, I've moderated that old stupidity with some basic sense of, why would I tie up? (we all know reasons why, just talking).

I'm not sorry I married my husband, he was and still is an extremely interesting person, emotionally and intellectually; I still care about him; we still understand each other. Many great years, oh, say, nineteen, and the ones that weren't so had more to do with our ages and phases..

Still, I wouldn't go back. At least now I wouldn't. Would have when it all happened.

I'm pretty lucky I think, but I did have that whole shebang happen twice. First guy when I was 18 until I was 20 -- lived together pretty much the whole time, and we very serious even though we were so young (same age). We both had always dated people older than us before meeting each other, were both only children, were both more serious and ambitious (good grades, high expectations) than most people we knew. Also just had a ton of fun together though, a great match.

It was Tragic when we broke up, I spent a whole summer mooning about it and writing bad poetry and boring friends with my nonstop maudlin-ness. I was mostly over it by the end of the summer (the breakup happened shortly after finals week, so by summer I mean a full 3-4 months), and I always think that having been able to just totally indulge my grief for that long helped me move on.

Stayed single for a year, with occasional dates that didn't work, then met E.G. Definitely the butterflies and all that. Very intense and romantic courtship, that then settled into something more sustainable.

First guy (not my first relationship, but my first Serious relationship) and I are still sporadically in touch. I'm thoroughly over him, though I'm not sure he really believes it. (He was the recipient of some of the bad grieving poetry, poor guy.) I seem to run into him every time I visit Madison, even though neither of us live there anymore, which is more than a little weird. Ran into him on a regular basis for 6 years or so after we broke up, when we did both still live in Madison. He moved into a house less than half a block from mine, waved at me from his window on my way to my wedding.

He's a semi-famous musician and easily Googlable, I keep an eye on what he's up to now and then. Emailed him maybe a year ago, he responded quickly and enthusiastically, I replied to that and included a picture of sozlet, he didn't reply. Not sure if he actually didn't or if it was an AOL mixup (it's happened once or twice, that I don't get emails sent from AOL), I haven't followed up. He hasn't married or had kids, I think it's possible he found the fact of sozlet depressing, as I know he always looked forward to being a dad.

Anyway, he's definitely a presence in my memories but not a barrier-type presence. Nothing to get over, at this point.

I'm still waiting for him


<sigh>

Dag--

The trouble with Overwhelming Passion for the young is that the object of the passion gets tangled and inlaid with layers of maturation and becomes a part of the fabric of the universe.

Can you think of your youthful swain as a fly in amber?

Yes, noddy. That I can. I even like amber very much, so that suits me perfectly. What I'm saying is that I just want to find someone I like reasonably well. I don't expect to be swept off my feet again. The respect part is more important for me at this point.

Dag--

Face it. You're overqualified as a Trophy Wife.

My guess is that the sort of men of your generation you'd be interested in are still establishing themselves as themselves. They lack the time and energy for complex women.

I'm guessing you have another three or four years of exploring until your prince matures.

Hold your dominion.

damned overqualification. gets in the way so many times in life. grrrrr.

I like the amber idea.

(An aside -- had to Google the ex again after writing the above, of course, and he has a new album for kids out [not just him, part of a band], and one song was available for free download, and sozlet LOVES it. Dancing around like a maniac and asking to play it again, etc. So, to buy the CD? Hmm. Maybe will ask E.G. if he has an opinion, first.)

well, if sozlet loves it, why not. but i guess it is good to ask first. Very Considerate.

Dag--

Think of the hours an above-average man would have to spend at the gym working on his biceps before he could see you as Arm Candy.

You know, dag, I'm partly of the opinion that monogamy is for dullards like myself who can't come up with anything worthwhile to do on their own. In the old days (and the new ones, for that matter), a lot of gay men and women either justified or celebrated their existence through the notion that they did not need to do the traditional coupling and procreation thing because they contributed to society in other ways. You may be in a similar boat.

I mean, if you want to be in that boat, or it helps you at all. Personally, I think you're fascinating, but I know that if I was still single I would be hardly worthy of your time. You set a very high bar, dag.

Dag, you speak my thoughts only more elegantly. Why is looking for mutual respect setting too high standards? I'm not criticizing the comment but trying to understand at this point in my life exactly what is reasonable standards?

I'm not trying to steer this thread in my direction, I just want you to know that I understand how you're feeling and that you are not alone in your situation.

I am still floundering a bit after the devestating ex. I don't wonder about where he is or what he's doing, I don't feel jealousy about his new life (last I heard, a couple years ago, he was married and expecting a little one), but I am damaged. I was hurt really badly. I have had a couple of short and superficial relationships since, but I guess I am afraid still to open up. Then there's the whole issue with me being a homebody and not meeting anyone new.

Noddy, if the men of her generation need a few more years, than what of the men in my generation. If early 30s men are unestablished, what are they in their late 30s? I was driving around this weekend (on the cape) and thinking - where are all the 30-something men? I see old guys and young guys. And married guys with kids.

Pdog - monogamy...... at some point, I (and this isn't just my view, others have said the same type of thing) stopped wanting to make the investment anymore. Maybe there needs to be a shift in perception - towards more casual relationships. But, I want that settled, long-term relationship. I think that there is value in making compromises and learning about another person in that way. The value is a deeper understanding gained about oneself and the rest of humanity even.

marty, not at all. that's what i look for. input.

p-dawg, the problem with men like you is that all of you are taken! the rest that is left single is usually not worth the dust they walk on... ok, well that's perhaps a wee bit of an exaggeration, but that's sort of how it seems to me right now.