31
   

Who should be Hillary's running mate?

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Apr, 2015 12:30 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

Come one Frank... Those are not news media people, they are pundits, they do no report the news. The only people on that list that could be considered news media are Cal Thomas and George Will, the rest are pundits and not news media.

So what you are saying is this. There is no such thing as right wing news media.


No...what I am saying is that the cry-babies of the right...want to pretend that the people I named are not part of the media.

Hey...no problem.

I understand how it is when the tears block your vision.

But the media is, at this moment, more dominated by the right than the left...whether you want to acknowledge that or not.

Okay?
georgeob1
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 23 Apr, 2015 09:26 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

But the media is, at this moment, more dominated by the right than the left...whether you want to acknowledge that or not.

Okay?[/b]


Interesting assertion. I think the answer depoends a great deal on how one measures media dominance. I beliueve that if you simply count newspapers, media outlets and dedicated programs, etc, the clear conclusion would be that generally left wing outlets would dominate, If however you count reader/ listener ship y9ou would likely reach a different conclusion; i.e. that right wing media dominates, as you indicated.

In the former case you are measuring the media effort itself: in the lattewr you are measuring the number of people who frequent it.

What does that tell you ???
Frank Apisa
 
  6  
Reply Fri 24 Apr, 2015 05:10 am
@georgeob1,
It tells me you are clever at asserting a fiction which strengthens a position you favor.

I do, however, agree that there is little doubt that a fair measure of whether the US media is dominated by left or right would require all sorts of "it depends" factors being considered. But a more interesting take than the one you proposed might be:

What do people outside the United States feel about this?

I dare to suspect that non-Americans think America is DOMINATED by the right...politically and in its media. I dare to suspect that non-Americans see what we call the far left being the left...what we call the left being the moderate right...what we call the right being the far right...and what we call the far right being the bat-**** crazy, Attila the Hun political arena.

I dare to suspect most non-Americans think the American media would be considered the far, far right in their country.

But, think what you will.

I KNOW the right is dominated by cry-babies who think that any part of the media that does not regularly join in the bat-**** crazy right wing extremism...ought to be considered dangerously left wing.

How are things today, George?

It's a bit chilly here in New Jersey, but I am hoping to get a round in starting a bit later in the morning.

edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Fri 24 Apr, 2015 07:31 am
@Frank Apisa,
Had to give you a thumb up, frank.
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Reply Fri 24 Apr, 2015 07:37 am
@edgarblythe,
Thanks, Edgar.

I hope some of the non-Americans share their feelings about this.

I see American conservatives constantly bemoaning the supposed "left leaning" media...but the very notion is an absurdity.

The right seems to think that unless the media slants to the extreme fringe of the right...then it is favoring the left.

That simply is not the way it is.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Fri 24 Apr, 2015 10:52 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:



The right seems to think that unless the media slants to the extreme fringe of the right...then it is favoring the left.

That simply is not the way it is.[/b]


you cant blame the perception of media bias on the Right, it is way too pervasive.

Quote:
In 2011, only 44% of those surveyed had "a great deal" or "a fair amount" of trust and confidence in the mass media.[14] In 2013 a 59% majority reported a perception of media bias, with 46% saying mass media was too liberal and 13% saying it was too conservative. The perception of bias was highest among conservatives. According to the poll, 78% of conservatives think the mass media is biased, as compared with 44% of liberals and 50% of moderates. Only about 36% view mass media reporting as "just about right"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_bias_in_the_United_States

You truly live in a fantasyland of your own making Frank.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Apr, 2015 11:20 am
@hawkeye10,
No fantasy land on my part, Hawk...perhaps on yours.

But stick with it. You are a useful pawn.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Fri 24 Apr, 2015 02:23 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
The perception of bias was highest among conservatives.


Just because most crazy people think someone is out to get them doesn't mean the rest of us are all in danger.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Fri 24 Apr, 2015 02:30 pm
@hawkeye10,
I love the links of some of the stuff in that wiki hawkeye...

Quote:
while some supposedly conservative outlets—such the Washington Times or Fox News’ Special Report—do lean right, their conservative bias is less than the liberal bias of most mainstream outlets


That is why you always have to be careful of wiki and check the source material since anyone can edit articles that aren't well followed.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Apr, 2015 02:43 pm
@parados,
The point these guys don't get is that almost 40% of Americans self-identify as conservatives...and that 40% ACTUALLY think that Fox News is "fair and balanced"...and that any media that do not reach at least that level of bias...are left leaning.

Really!

That is what they want...they want right leaning to the extreme...and anything less than that...they deem to be left leaning.

Almost all of my close friends and golf partners are conservatives. My closest three friends are conservatives of the Rush Limbaugh/Glenn Beck variety. My closest four golf partners are of the same disposition. I love them all...dearly. I just think they do not realize they are being used as tools of the right. They are allowing a perception that white males here are being put upon to warp their views.

Conservatives think that the media ought to be far right...and actually base their assessment on the fact that most media is relatively impartial...which they insist means they are left leaning.

And they are cry-babies...crying that the media will not toe the line they want toed.

Hey. They are free to do so.

And I am free to laugh at the notion the media is biased to the left.

Once again...how America and the American media is perceived by non-Americans is probably a hell of a lot better indicator of the bias of the media...than the assessment of American conservatives.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Fri 24 Apr, 2015 02:58 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

I love the links of some of the stuff in that wiki hawkeye...

Quote:
while some supposedly conservative outlets—such the Washington Times or Fox News’ Special Report—do lean right, their conservative bias is less than the liberal bias of most mainstream outlets


That is why you always have to be careful of wiki and check the source material since anyone can edit articles that aren't well followed.


I cant wait to see how you try to spin the fact that 40% of moderates say that the media is too liberal, verses 15% who say that it is too conservative. And how about the fact that 46% of liberals dont trust the media? But you just go on being an apologist for the American media, I never mind you making yourself look ignorant.

http://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/pxwfdyoz60kppsv9cc2cww.gif
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Apr, 2015 03:02 pm
@hawkeye10,
As I said...the cry-babies on the right think that anything less than Fox News (which they consider fair and balanced) is too far left.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS0hoTMaNhLbilaR-GlNnGcWyzJMFSiRMBuuzBBEkYtWOFTLzOcJw

0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 24 Apr, 2015 06:10 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

It tells me you are clever at asserting a fiction which strengthens a position you favor.

I do, however, agree that there is little doubt that a fair measure of whether the US media is dominated by left or right would require all sorts of "it depends" factors being considered. But a more interesting take than the one you proposed might be:

What do people outside the United States feel about this?


Well your assertion about media dominance referred only to the American media, and I replied to that. I believe it is generally recognized that relative to the distinctions between left and right that prevail in this country the main media outlets including newspapers the main TV networks and most entertainment enterprises are by their numbers mostly left wing by our usual standards. This includes the leading newspapers including the NY Times, Washington Post and the main papers in Los Angeles, Chicago and most major American cities , as well as the principal TV networks (with the exception of Fox). This has been true here for several generations.

I'll agree that existing right wing talk radio outlets and the Fox network get a lot of attention now from their liberal opponents, but apart from them and the Wall Street Journal , there isn't much out there.

Why is it necessary for you now to change the subject and address our presumed political position relative to the rest of the world? The fact is that politics throughout the world changes continuously. Canada and Australia have elected governments far more conservative than ours. The tide of economic performance that once sustained the social welfare states of Europe has been receeding for over two decades, as growth stagnates and chronic unemployment of the young becomes the norm. Reactionary conservative movements are rising in France, Hungary and other countries. It's a dynamic, changing situation and I think you should rethink your sweeping generalities and implications. I'll readily agree that the U.S. has long pursued more conservative econbomic policies than most European States since WWII, and that difference shows in our relative economic growth rates and average incomes. That said we have lost a lot of our former advantages in economic performance over the past decade and particularly since our limp economic recovery from the last recession. I have a few right wing opinions about that too.

georgeob1
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 24 Apr, 2015 06:21 pm
By the way recent events appear to have overtaken the topic of this thread. The relevant question regarding Hillary's candidacy now appears more to involve the accelerating disintegration of her support among Democrats as fears of her possible unelectability grow among them, following the flood of public reminders of the old Clintonian sleaze factor.

I susapect Democrat leaders are becoming increasingly anxious about the gathering smell of corruption and cover-ups in the Clinton camp, as well as those about Hillary's evident tin ear in communicating with voters and the growing impressions of hypocrisy and a sense of entitlement in her behavior. Can she withstand these adverse political winds for the next 15 months??? The stakes are indeed high for other Democrat leaders and they may soon panic and choose to invest the time remaining in the development of alternative candidates, though I'll conceed that between O'Malley and Warren they don't have much out there.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Fri 24 Apr, 2015 07:49 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
By the way recent events appear to have overtaken the topic of this thread. The relevant question regarding Hillary's candidacy now appears more to involve the accelerating disintegration of her support among Democrats as fears of her possible unelectability grow among them, following the flood of public reminders of the old Clintonian sleaze factor.

evidence of overt corruption appears to be the problem. No need to pussy foot around the truth I think....

The D leadership is going to be very sorry that they allowed her to persuade them to subvert democracy I think.

Just for the record: Hawkeye called this months ago.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Apr, 2015 06:23 am
@georgeob1,
I appreciate your position and comments, George...although I disagree.

I stand by my opinion that anything to the left of the absurdly right wing Fox News...is considered by most American conservatives to be left leaning. Most American conservatives wouldn't recognize "fair and balanced" news coverage if it fell on them. If they did, they would see that newspapers like the New York Times and Washington Post are a GREAT DEAL more fair and balanced than something like FOX News.

But if American conservatives want to get their news from an American hating person like Rupert Murdoch...who am I to say they shouldn't.

Do it. I just think you should be above that.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Apr, 2015 06:27 am
@georgeob1,
Well...I am not a Democrat, George, but I would love to see the Democrats go with Hillary Clinton no matter what...and I will vote for her.

I would hope you people support someone like Ted Cruz for the top of the Republican ticket as enthusiastically...since he represents your conservative views best of the crowd.

Hillary vs. Cruz.

I say...let's go.

And you can even throw in the other reliable conservative darling of that party...Sarah Palin in the second spot...to help with the gender factor.

Let's see what happens.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Sat 25 Apr, 2015 06:47 am
@hawkeye10,
You repeat a lie often enough and many people will believe it. Let reality get in the way, and the lie is eventually revealed. I wonder why you chose the numbers from 2010.

I don't have to spin any numbers. I wonder why conservatives are the ones found to be the most uninformed when it comes to news events.


http://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/gojeiz6sfeej6g7dgd0bbq.png
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Sat 25 Apr, 2015 06:48 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
The relevant question regarding Hillary's candidacy now appears more to involve the accelerating disintegration of her support among Democrats as fears of her possible unelectability grow among them,

It seems the news media has to make up some crisis to try to keep you happy.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Apr, 2015 09:46 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

I appreciate your position and comments, George...although I disagree.

I stand by my opinion that anything to the left of the absurdly right wing Fox News...is considered by most American conservatives to be left leaning.
You may be getting tangled up in your own definitions here. I generally agree with you that the majority of the media that consistently expresses positions left of Fox News is, on average , usually considered here to be somewhat left wing. That's mostly because the only major media outlets here , apart from dedicated ones like the National Review, that aren't left wing (by American standards) are talk radio, Fox News and the Wall Street Journal (plus a few local newspapers). I get it that your definition of left wing is likely a little left of mine, but the real policy and political divide currently operating in this country is, in my opinion, closer to my line than yours.

Both political parties are becoming more polarized, but interestingly there appear (to me at least) that there are more moderating forces at work among Republicans than Democrats right now. I suspect you will disagree. When considering the "other side" I suspect we both (and many others too) tend to see only the extremes on the other side, but are more sensitive to the gradations on our own. That might be an area on which we are both often wrong.
 

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