Was I assaulted?

Fire is fire. It devours, it consumes, it sublimates, it's beautiful, useful and deadly dangerous. Sexual fire is no less dangerous a substance... Does anyone here believes that a couple of adolescents can kiss and cuddle and sleep together at night AND remain chaste for long? Those guys have triple the level of hormones you and I have...

I have a feeling that the US are setting their kids up for failure. How many contradictory messages and instructions can you send them? You teach them respect for religion, faithfulness and marriage, you tell them that sex is good, you expect their minds to control their hormone-filled bodies at all times, and what else? That at the slightest sexual misconducted must be repressed by law.... Recipe for disaster.

I'd rather be less demanding of my kid and tell her not to sleep with men if she wants to remain a virgin... But that's just plain old european me.

Yes, yes.
We all know Europe is superior, point taken.

You used to see bumper stickers in the South saying "We don't care how you do it in the North", as many Yankees used every opportunity to vocalize how backwards Southerners were, even though the Northern way of life isn't superior, just different.

We don't care how you do it in Europe quite frankly.

No, i honestly hoped that you would pause for a sec and start consider the issue seriously, as a human matter, not as some abstract and purely logical question.

In other words, I find your take mechanistic and rash, and I tried to shake you out of it.

Forget Europe. Try and care for YOUR KIDS.

I don't believe you for an instant.
You had no other reason to pull a poorly worded question to me out of your ass beyond giving yourself a chance to talk about how free thinking and sophisticated you are.

Why do you assume I have not given this great thought? Because it's not the way you think?

I'm not going to debate you over this. I have over years carefully developed, modified and revised my opinions on subjects such as the one being presented here. Your assumption I'm speaking off the cuff is insulting.

I'm not going to take any spins on this carousel with you Oliver. Our opinions are different.

That's pretty much what I was telling you to do.

Oliver's opinions are his own. Yerp has nothing to do with it. BillRM tries to do the same, whenever he's losing an argument against me, he tries to wrap himself in the flag. So he does that one heck of a lot.

The one warping herself in the flag is Chai. She's making a big deal out of one tiny passage of one of my post because she can't address the rest. Cheap.

How many of you here would report his/her own daughter to the cops if she had done something like what Travis described? I need to know if I am dealing with human beings or not.

An this is from a man who can understand torturing another human being to death base only on the word of a 13 years old girl who may or may not had been pointing the finger at the correct person.

You probably gave the issue a lot of 'computing time', but real human thought involves the heart. Anyone who is ready to send her or his own daughter to the cops for something like what the OP describes is a monster in my book.

Given that the US already have more of our total population behind bars then any other major nation on earth by a factor of ten or so, one wonder when we might start to consider that the criminal justice system might not be the ideal means to deal with all problems and misdeeds.

Of course Izzy is also for not using the criminal justice system in all cases but for granting the right to take punishments into a parent own hands up to murder by torture.

You've been on edge ever since that woman followed you home from the supermarket carpark. She must have recognised you as the creep in the playground with a box of kittens and blurred fingers.

A dad wouldn't torture someone who raped his daughter unless he was certain he'd got the right person. You don't understand how non dysfunctional parents and children relate to one another.

You never will.

Let's not mix up too many issues. I haven't seen Izzy recommending a legal process about this thread's story -- maybe I missed it. Beth has emphatically stated she has not recommend going to the cops... Good for her. I'll keep asking others.

Chai said she would report her own kid to the cops if she had done something like that. I find that totally unfathomable, and quite frankly, disgustingly self-rightous.

I bloody would. Then again my kids would never do anything like that. They've been taught to respect others.

Really?

(Sigh...)

Do you have a daughter?

I could swear I said in this thread that I wouldn't go to the police with the daughter, but I can't find it looking back. I think I thought about it and backed off, not being completely sure.. I'd certainly have a long talk with her. This opinion is age dependent and individual child dependent and situation dependent, not set in stone. In the situation described, she refused to listen to him, which is a giant flag re treatment of others in general and, as many of us have said, was actually rape.

This brings up something I wonder about. I've read off and on about rape crisis centers, which seem like a really good thing. Do men use those?
are there different ones re genders?

I'm not a parent. I never had that particular problem to deal with, though I was a long time counsel-when-she-wanted-to-talk with a young relative. I also brought her to planned parenthood once when she was worried, when she was on a visit to me where I had moved to. They apparently have a whole instructional guide system in place re how things work and what to watch out for, how to protect yourself, plus the testing ability. She thanked me then and many times later on; her father thanked me at the time.

I agree: a long talk with her for sure; she must understand that rape is bad and that "you're a boy, you'll like it" is not an excuse. But spare her the cops. Let's keep this in proportion with the actual harm done, and let's remember that justice involves a bit of compassion and understanding for human frailties, and not only punishment, punishment, punishment all the time and for all things.

PS: about the 'raped male centers', it's not like there's an epidemic of female-on-male rapes either, so I don't think there is a significant social need for this kind of centers. And then we've been raised to 'take it in the chin', you know?

Contraposition is always interesting.