Was I assaulted?

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Let's rejoice about that. Kids don't belong in jail if you ask me, except for the most obvious and grievous crimes.

I agree. I think counseling is better...why ruin a life?

@Germlat,

Germlat wrote:

Olivier5 wrote:

Let's rejoice about that. Kids don't belong in jail if you ask me, except for the most obvious and grievous crimes.

I agree. I think counseling is better...why ruin a life?

I agree 100%, rape definitely ruins lives and those that rape should be kept away from the publi-
Oh wait you want to defend sex offenders.

1 Reply

@TheSubliminalKid,

TheSubliminalKid wrote:

Germlat wrote:

Olivier5 wrote:

Let's rejoice about that. Kids don't belong in jail if you ask me, except for the most obvious and grievous crimes.

I agree. I think counseling is better...why ruin a life?

I agree 100%, rape definitely ruins lives and those that rape should be kept away from the publi-
Oh wait you want to defend sex offenders.

Agent provocateur alert...

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@Germlat,

In French we say: 'and if my aunt had some, I'd call her 'my uncle'... Wink

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@Olivier5,

Factual question gets thumbed down. Whatever.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Factual question gets thumbed down. Whatever.

Such is life...makes you wonder how people vote for the presidency though...or wether I'd be best to have a 12 jury panel make a decision or leave it up to a judge.

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@Butrflynet,

Quote:

Travis, this is why I gave you those links to the other sites where you may feel more comfortable expressing your feelings about what happened and getting help to understand your emotions. You need to be allowed to do that regardless of the status of your relationship and any subsequent consequences for either of you.

You won't find that here. You will get drowned out by the usual noise.

And the longer this thread goes on, the clearer it is that Travis couldn't find any help here. Most people didn't even listen to him, or address the questions he asked us to help him with, or even credit him with being an adult.

You were definitely correct in advising him to go to more appropriate sites to vent, and with providing him with links on where to go. Since he hasn't returned here, I hope he took your good advice.

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@firefly,

Thanks for your honest and thoughtful post. You're right: my reluctance to condone legal pursuits hinges entirely on their age, and they may be young adults. He does write excellent English (as far as i can tell) and that's a (possible/potential) indicator of maturity.

And if she's an adult and is indeed motivated by the type of sexual predation you describe, she is indeed legally liable in my book too.

But then, i also fail to understand why Travis was so naïve as to think that he could sleep too many times in the loving arms of a young needy female and still remain a virgin. In the history of (wo)mankind, I don't think this has happened too often... Tristan and Iseult had the sense of placing a medieval sword between them when they slept in the same bed (the modern version would be an automatic riffle I guess) and even they could not resist. The laws of nature say: people in love sleeping together will eventually do more than sleep together, whatever they think they will do.

It's this emotional immaturity that struck me and made me think 'teenager', but it's also possible in a young adult I guess.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Quote:

Kids don't belong in jail if you ask me, except for the most obvious and grievous crimes.

That go for a large percent of the adults in US prisons also with a prison population ten times by population then such nations as the UK.

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@Olivier5,

Quote:

But then, i also fail to understand why Travis was so naïve as to think that he could sleep too many times in the loving arms of a young needy female and still remain a virgin.

I don't think this woman was a "young needy female"--I think what she did was an aggressive act of dominance, and not an expression of either sexual passion or need. Nor do I see her as having "loving arms"--her behavior in raping him, as well as her callous indifferent attitude toward him the next day, when he was crying and distressed, suggests anything but love--this woman didn't give a damn for him or his feelings.

Travis was naïve because, even though he was adult, he was sexually inexperienced. That doesn't make him emotionally immature. He also thought he could trust her to abide by the boundaries he had set, and she had agreed to, and men never think about the possibility they might be raped by a female.

Quote:

The laws of nature say: people in love sleeping together will eventually do more than sleep together, whatever they think they will do.

These two were not sleeping together regularly, he says they did it before, which might have been once, and there were no problems. And nowhere does Travis indicate he loved her, he simply says she was "attractive"--and her actions toward him were demanding, not loving. And he clearly did not want to have sex with her, and told her that, and maybe that offended her, she took it to mean he didn't find her desirable, so she raped him out of anger to get back at him.

So I just can't find reason to blame the victim in this situation, or even to think he might have expected this to happen. Men are not forcibly raped by females very often at all, but it can happen, its just a possibly that might never occur to most men.

1 Reply

I dont have enough information to say, as the important information is missing. We go from one party aggressively requesting sex to the other party saying they had sex. What about all the stuff in the middle, you know, the stuff that would shed light on the consent arrangement?

More than likely though this is a confused consent situation, based upon the one party asking if an assault took place and the other acting like the consent was good.

A Hawkeye determination will be made if the relevant information is submitted.

1 Reply

@firefly,

Quote:

Male rape just isn't taken very seriously around here, and that's unfortunate.

WHAT? There is no particular reason to think that the OP was raped, we have almost no information on what happened. He sure seems emotional based upon what we have heard, and he seems pretty clueless. Hell ya, if you are going to crawl into bed with a good looking girl and fondle her you damn well better be ready to **** her. Not wanting her is going to be taken as an insult, as it seems to have been taken here......these girls are not used to being turned down, and are not going to take kindly to the lack of understanding about how fantastically desirable they are.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

What about all the stuff in the middle, you know, the stuff that would shed light on the consent arrangement?

You're slipping, Hawkeye, because the relevant consent information is there, you're missing it.

Quote:

It got cold during the night and we cuddled, we've done this before and it's been ok. We've had the agreement that I wasn't ready for sex yet.

Well when we were cuddling she started to grab "parts" of me, I let it happen and then we kissed a bit, this was consensual. (I had to "put out" something she said, so we agreed on second base.) After that I whispered goodnight, but she didn't stop. She got on top of me, covered my mouth and put her elbows on my chest to hold me in place, "Don't you think I'm pretty?" "Trust me, you're a guy, you'll like it." she thought she was being cute I guess, but I clearly resisted and tried to get up I yelled into her palm and everything...

She knew from the start that he wasn't ready for sex yet, and she agreed to that. Then he let her grab at him and they engaged in consensual kissing--in response to her demand that he "put out" they set the consent boundary at "second base" by mutual agreement. But, after he whispered "goodnight", it sounds like she almost immediately went behind the consent boundary she and he had agreed to, got on top of him, held him down, covered his mouth, and forced him to penetrate her while he was clearly resisting and trying to get up--all of which she did while he was indicating non-consent, .

There's no "confused consent" there. He was clear all along he didn't want to have sexual intercourse with her, he had made that clear verbally, and when she forced it on him, he resisted--resistance is legally considered a behavioral "NO!".

It sounds as though he never really wanted to do more than just cuddle and kiss her, so there wasn't much of a middle in what was going on between them--Travis really wasn't into having much in the way of sexual contact or activity, he really didn't want it, he didn't feel ready for it.

I think he might have asked "Was I Assaulted?" in the thread title because most sexual assaults/rapes involve one person being penetrated by a genital organ or object without their consent, and that's how rape is legally defined, but this situation involved someone being forced to penetrate another person, which is very different, and it is something we don't hear much about, although research surveys are collecting data regarding its prevalence. While this is a classic date rape scenario, and he was sexually assaulted, "being forced to penetrate" may not meet the current legal standard definition of "rape", so that may be part of the reason he asked whether he was assaulted. As he said, "I'm a guy, so logically I shouldn't have this happen to me." He may be genuinely confused about whether a male can be sexually assaulted by a female and how this would be legally regarded.

1 Reply

@firefly,

Quote:

You're focused on the ramifications to the female, the rapist in this situation, if he reports this incident, and you overlook the ordeal for the rape victim when they report their assaults--they are often not taken seriously, or even believed, they are blamed for their own rapes, and often their complaints aren't fully investigated--the legal process can be a demeaning and humiliating ordeal for the victim, and considerably more so for a male victim than a female victim. So that's a consideration for a male in deciding whether to report it. It depends on how he feels about wanting to see her held legally accountably for what she did to him. It's entirely his choice, and one he should have support with, if that's the course he wants to take.

I haven't overlooked this. On the contrary I am one of the very few here who repeatedly pointed out that following with pursuits could make far more damage to the guy that not doing so. I said so several times, although not as well as you did. So I am not focused on the girl's welfare but primarily on his.

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@firefly,

I am not 'blaming the victim'; I am not interested in blaming anyone in any case.

I am saying that a man who dates a woman and enters her bed is EXPECTED by her to make love. If he doesn't, she usually dumps him the next day--and it can get uglier: I'm sure Izzy can provide us with the exact Shakespearian quote but it involves hell and furies and women scorned...

And that is perhaps what Travis' GF should have done: go and find a partner who can provide what she wants. Instead, she apparently waited a bit, probably hoping that he would be 'ready' soon. And when it turned out he wasn't, she took matters to another level and she shouldn't have. But he also should have known better than sleep with her if he wasn't ready.

I think you are reading too much into her. I still think she might have had a positive intention, and since Travis is not around to inform us, this is all speculative. For all we know, he could by now be increasingly interested in this odd thing, slightly disgusting at first, that's called sex. He could be realizing that his fear of sex (if that's what it was) was irrational... It wouldn't be the first time, trust me. Most men/boys are anxious when they do it the first time, and many would rather not try it, but they understand that at some point they will need to try is so why wait? And they try it and WOOOOOOH they understand suddenly what the fuss was all about, and that vaginas don't have teeth after all, and it doesn't really hurt that much... In fact it pleasures you far more than your left hand possibly can...

I bet this is what she had in mind: just give him a little taste of what he was missing out on. I hope it works, because this guy WAS missing out on what is arguably the most marvelous and enjoyable thing in life. What else is there to make life bearable? Apple pie... :-)

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

I am saying that a man who dates a woman and enters her bed is EXPECTED by her to make love.

Not if he says he won't first.

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@izzythepush,

That sounds rational but it doesn't work that way. If he won't have sex, why is he dating a woman? Why is he sleeping in her arms? That is recipe for disaster. If you don't want to do it, stay away from temptation and don't tempt others. Tell your suitors that you can't help them and they need to look elsewhere. Tempting others that much and then crying rape when they take the bait is not proper.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

It's not "tempting" if you lay your cards on the table beforehand, and I suspect you wouldn't say the same if the genders were reversed.

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@izzythepush,

I would say exactly the same if the genders were reversed. Here:

Girls, don't think you can date a man, spend more than one single night* in his arms, and remain a virgin.

* that 'we love each other platonically in the same bed' miracle can happen once, but not twice.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

What more can I say other than I think you're wrong.

1 Reply

Was I assaulted?

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