Why I'm a feminist.

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

The reason I oppose feminism is once you have an ideology where a narrative is more important than facts, it does more harm than good.

You dispute the facts without checking up on them. When I told you of my daughter's experiences, and the women on this thread told of their own experiences you accused us all of making things up to win an argument.

If you were really interested in facts you'd be listening to women about their experiences not arguing with them about it.

2 Replies

@ossobuco,

Osso.

I expect that the biggest disagreement we have is our personal association with the word "feminist". I don't think this keeps us from being reasonable on all of the other issues.

I don't see you or Revelette as part of the echo chamber.

If you and I agree on the important things, like respect for women and equality, I don't think it is so important we disagree on the term for it. If we can have a respectful discussion on the areas we disagree, all the better.

2 Replies

@revelette2,

Thanks. :-)

0 Replies

@Olivier5,

why not just stop with the first sentence?

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

maxdancona wrote:
The reason I oppose feminism is once you have an ideology where a narrative is more important than facts, it does more harm than good.

You dispute the facts without checking up on them. When I told you of my daughter's experiences, and the women on this thread told of their own experiences you accused us all of making things up to win an argument.

If you were really interested in facts you'd be listening to women about their experiences not arguing with them about it.

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130112181332/glee/images/b/b2/Yes%2Bsir%2BD%2Bthis%2Bgif%2Bwas%2Bgolden%2B_483d2e3ead21878f296690ac04d468c4.jpg

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

You dispute the facts without checking up on them.

Quite the contrary. I did check up on them. The facts we are disputing is on whether anyone made a misogynistic attack on the original poster, or whether anyone on this thread claimed that women were never assaulted.

Facts are facts. Anyone can check. You and the TheSubliminalKid both made claims that are factually incorrect.

You have the right to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

2 Replies

@Olivier5,

Blaming the victim is part of my experience in Europe as well.

0 Replies

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

The statement I took issue with was different: it was that men (e.g. at a bar) would routinely say about women wearing sexy clothes that "she's looking for it". I found that rather vulgar.

oh because I used a different tense it is different?

men and women say women wearing/doing anything are looking for it

is that clearer?

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

maxdancona wrote:
Izzy, I strongly object to anyone threatening women with rape for any reason, especially as part of an internet argument. I don't deny that it happens. It does happen and it is inexcusable.

Just to be clear your assertion that women in anonymous internet arguments are threatened with rape is correct. Your judgments about me are wrong (and unfounded).

I am looking for a reasonable discussion. I have no problem agreeing with you when you are right.

So if you accept it happens why do you take issue with the Kid's opening statement?

I am looking for a reasonable discussion. I agree with some of what she said and take issue with other parts. When someone posts 38 points on an emotional topic I feel like this is being reasonable.

0 Replies

@TheSubliminalKid,

Let's try and understand each other here. I don't disagree with any of what you just said. I'm just saying: if you want to talk to men about that, and if you want them to understand what you are saying, tone down the anti-men rhetoric a bit.

Or you can keep projecting a negative image of men, and see whether that wins you many friends on our side of the gender divide.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

A few extremists are not speaking for the rest of them feminists. You should talk to your daughter about it. About feminism I mean. She might very well be a feminist; many young women are as you must know, and most often for fairly simple, obvious and agreeable reasons. Let's not throw the baby with the bathwater.

0 Replies

@Olivier5,

My "anti-men" rhetoric, as you call it, is literally just me saying what actually happens.

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

Tenses are indeed an important feature of language.

Quote:

men and women say women wearing/doing anything are looking for it

That is bad. These men and women should not be saying that.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

The facts we are disputing is on whether anyone made a misogynistic attack on the original poster

one of the realities you are coming up against is that you (in this case) can not judge what another poster meant or how another poster received a message

you may not take something as a misogynistic attack - but someone (or several someones) may read that same thing and experience it as an attack (misogynistic or otherwise defined)

For example, you've got strong negative feelings about a word - and your consistent posted reactions to it cause a very strong visceral reaction in me. I don't think you're attempting to attack me personally - but that is how it feels. As a result, I generally try to avoid threads where I think you will be posting about anything to do with men/women and their relationships.

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

Quote:

one of the realities you are coming up against is that you (in this case) can not judge what another poster meant or how another poster received a message

you may not take something as a misogynistic attack - but someone (or several someones) may read that same thing and experience it as an attack (misogynistic or otherwise defined)

Everyone has the right to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

The poster made a specific prediction. She then made a claim that there was such an attack. This is no interpretation here. She was factually incorrect. There was nothing in this thread that could possibly be considered a misogynistic attack by any reasonable person. If there was something she considered to be a misogynistic attack, she would have presented it. As it is she has nothing.

Facts are facts. You can't just make them up to fit your narrrative.

1 Reply

@TheSubliminalKid,

Just keep up at it then... Sadly I am quite sure many men appreciate your efforts to undermine feminism.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

So because the Kid hasn't actually been threatened with rape on this thread, despite having been threatened with rape on tumblr and twitter means what she's saying is wrong?

Based on past experiences I wouldn't say her prediction was unjustified.

What claims have I made that were not factually correct?

I know you keep changing your mind over things, (which is actually to your credit,) but I haven't.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

I laugh at some of the claims that are made. They aren't true in the world in which I live in.

this

this is disturbing to me

it is the reason I looked at the thread and left it initially

because things are not true in maxdancona's world, they are to be laughed at

things a woman experiences that distress her can be laughed at because they are not part of his experience

That way of thinking is part of why I am a feminist.

_____________

I hope he is kinder and smarter with his daughter and other women in his life than the way he presents himself here.

2 Replies

@ehBeth,

Welcome to the world Max lives in, population 1.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

. There was nothing in this thread that could possibly be considered a misogynistic attack by any reasonable person.

are you claiming to be that reasonable person?

0 Replies

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