izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2014 09:44 am
@maxdancona,
What individual did I personally attack? Have you seen what they call me?
http://able2know.org/topic/258610-1

Just read the 1st paragraph.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2014 09:45 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

Yea; I remember when Winston Churchill flashed that sign;
V for victory! He was Right. I held him in high esteem.


It's not just for victory.

0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2014 09:53 am
@TheSubliminalKid,
TheSubliminalKid wrote:
Too bad there's so many reasons we need feminism.
May I respectfully point out the failure of logic
in regard to number of your chosen grammar??

I respectfully suggest that:
Too bad there are (or r) so many reasons we need feminism
serves u better. The word is is singular and individual, whereas u spoke of multiple reasons.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2014 09:56 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I am wondering SubliminalKid, are you really open for a respectful discussion with different opinions being expressed?

If this turns into another echo chamber of people who all agree, I am out of here.
I dont believe there is much danger of that,
but HOW do u make people disagree with u, Max ???????
Tell us your technique for that.





David
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2014 10:01 am
@izzythepush,
I am not "them", and you will not get a personal attack from me. You and I probably agree on more practical and political issues than we disagree about (including pay equity and LBGT issues).

My problem is with the feminist mythology where every social interaction is judged through the lens of men oppressing women. Often this leads to things that are clearly wrong being accepted as political fact. Sometimes feminist ideas are detrimental to cultural diversity and the way relationships work in real life.

The latest example is the embarrassingly bad video from Hollaback where a white woman is "harrassed" by a bunch of Black and Hispanic men asking her to smile. They actually had to apologize for releasing this video.... and yet it has 30 million hits and a large mass of fans.

More personal is the messages that were given to my sons as adolescents. In a public school, the boys and girls were separated. Rather than talking about healthy respectful relationships (which is the message I gave my kids), the school told the boys "don't molest the girls" and the girls were told "watch out for the boys". The message here is clear... boys are a risk to females. This is not a message of equality, or even a particularly good message.

Again, I am happy to discuss any of these examples respectfully if this is possible.
TheSubliminalKid
 
  3  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2014 10:05 am
@maxdancona,
Pretty presumptuous of you to assume that.

The fact is, we do need liberation of women and to concentrate on that first.
We see overweight 30+ men with attractive women constantly and it's seen as natural but never vice versa.

A woman is only worth her sexual attractiveness.
TheSubliminalKid
 
  3  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2014 10:06 am
@maxdancona,
It is harassment though, and Hollaback are wonderful.
We do live in a society where women are oppressed by men.

Women don't owe men anything, not a smile, not a hello, nothing.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2014 10:12 am
@TheSubliminalKid,
TheSubliminalKid wrote:
Women don't owe men anything, not a smile, not a hello, nothing.
Is the vice versa reverse also true, Sub??

I take it that u r a female.





David
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2014 10:13 am
@TheSubliminalKid,
Quote:
We see overweight 30+ men with attractive women constantly and it's seen as natural but never vice versa.


You are using the term "attractive women". Could you please define what you think makes a woman attractive?

I strongly disagree with your point about a woman's worth. I have enthusiastically voted for women including Elizabeth Warren and Martha Coakley (I will let you judge whether you think they are attractive or not). Both of these women earned my vote by their political positions and leadership abilities. I am quite impressed by Senator Warren.

I have also worked for women on several occasions, and there are a couple of women I worked for that I deeply respected for their technical expertise.

Women should be treated as human beings, don't you think?




0 Replies
 
TheSubliminalKid
 
  3  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2014 10:13 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

TheSubliminalKid wrote:
Women don't owe men anything, not a smile, not a hello, nothing.
Is the vice versa reverse also true, Sub??

I take it that u r a female.





David


Women don't cat call men going "hey baby give us a smile"
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2014 10:17 am
TheSubliminalKid wrote:
Women don't owe men anything, not a smile, not a hello, nothing.
Is the vice versa reverse also true, Sub??

I take it that u are a female.





David
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2014 10:19 am
@TheSubliminalKid,
That is not true. Attractive men do get comments.


OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2014 10:22 am
@TheSubliminalKid,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

TheSubliminalKid wrote:
Women don't owe men anything, not a smile, not a hello, nothing.
Is the vice versa reverse also true, Sub??

I take it that u r a female.





David

TheSubliminalKid wrote:
Women don't cat call men going "hey baby give us a smile"
I 've had them tell me to smile; more than once.





David
0 Replies
 
TheSubliminalKid
 
  3  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2014 10:24 am
@maxdancona,
Yes but how often each way? We can't pretend this isn't a gendered issue.

I got cat called while I was in my school uniform, baring in mind the last time I was in school uniform I was fifteen years old.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2014 10:29 am
@TheSubliminalKid,
TheSubliminalKid wrote:

Yes but how often each way? We can't pretend this isn't a gendered issue.

I got cat called while I was in my school uniform, baring in mind
the last time I was in school uniform I was fifteen years old.
OK; that indicates that u r a female.





David
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2014 10:33 am
@TheSubliminalKid,
Quote:
We can't pretend this isn't a gendered issue.


I strongly disagree.

I don't think it is a "gendered issue". Actually I hate the term "gendered issue". It means that it is wrong when men do it to women, but Ok when women do it to men. As I said, the reason I am an anti-feminist is that I reject that mythology that views every social interaction through the lens of men's oppression of women.

If we are really talking about equality, then women heckling men should be seen the same as men heckling women. Right?

OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2014 10:38 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

If we are really talking about equality, then women heckling men
should be seen the same as men heckling women. Right?
If it happened to me,
I doubt that I 'd care much.





David
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2014 10:38 am
Whoever is thumbing me down... thank you. When I get thumbed down for expressing my opinion in a respectful way (without attacking anyone) it makes me feel like my case is strong enough that someone can't handle it.
TheSubliminalKid
 
  3  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2014 10:38 am
@maxdancona,
Nobody's saying that but we need to realise that 99.9% of the time it's men that do it to women due to rape culture, internalised misogyny and this idea that women are just objects to be consumed by a male audience.

That's the truth.

It is a gendered issue.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2014 10:42 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Whoever is thumbing me down... thank you. When I get thumbed down for expressing my opinion in a respectful way (without attacking anyone) it makes me feel like my case is strong enough that someone can't handle it.
I deem it insignificant,
when it happens to me.





David
0 Replies
 
 

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