Potty-Mouthed Princesses Drop F-Bombs for Feminism by FCKH8.com

You know exactly what I'm talking about, so stop trying to act coy. You just sucked up to Oralboy. Here.

http://able2know.org/topic/257742-47#post-5832137

You can check out what else he was posting at the same time by clicking on his avatar. I don't want to have to read it, but it should give you some idea of the sort of person you've been praising.

I didn't know what you were talking about.

I don't think there is anything wrong with agreeing with Orally when I believe he is right. It seems silly to make this a personal quibble. It doesn't matter who is right... I am more interested in what is right. Being reasonable means looking at the facts of an argument in an objective way no matter who is making it. Facts are facts and reason is reason.

Personal quibbles aren't very interesting.

Except when they're directed at your own kids, then you might find them very interesting.

And you're starting to sound like Gradgrind.

What are you talking about? I just went back and checked the post you linked to.

I responded to Oralloys post about the Rolling Stone retraction of the UVA gang rape story. There was nothing in that post about your kids or about anyone else's kids.

Your squabble with Oralloy has nothing to do with me. I only responded to one of his posts. You and Oralloy are the same to me. If either one of you makes sense to me on any topic, I will agree with you.

It's only a brand to YOU. I refuse to be limited by what you suspect the Feminist 'Brand' is. Do you have a label for people who think exactly as you do? I bet not, you would not want to be judged by the behaviour of every loud mouth blow hard walking around spouting nonsense over gender definined roles. Not all men who object to 'feminist' also believe women should have equal opportunities.

As I posted earlier, Feministing (a feminist website) refers to the ¨Feminist brand¨ in what I thought was a pretty enlightened article.

http://feministing.com/2013/04/18/what-can-we-do-about-feminisms-brand-problem/

The word ¨feminist¨ is unique. No other civil rights movement has such a word. There are no blackists, or hispanicsits, or gayists.

In all of the other movements for rights, there is no word that everyone must use. I am saying ¨I support equality, respect and safety for women, but I don´t want to be labeled with word ´feminist´¨ people get angry and start lobbing personal attacks.

If I say, ¨I support gay rights and marriage, but I don´t want to be referred to with the label ´gay´¨, or ¨I don want to be referred to with the term African-American¨ there wouldn´t be such personal offense taken. Many successful movements are inclusive.

I don´t understand the need to attack people who don´t want to use a label.

I don't understand your need to attack people who don't want to be burdened by your label. By the way, as much as you wish for your daughter to not be limited by her gender, that will be her battle to fight, not yours. It really doesn't matter how enlightened you think you are, what matters is her view of herself and how well she manages to navigate the world as a college student and beyond.

What are you talking about? I am not attacking anyone. If you want to be called feminist, I have no problem with that. I choose not to burdened by any "ism" (which is my choice).

I have never expressed any desire to burden you with any label. I am only asking that you give me the same respect if I don't want to be burdened with the "feminism" label.

Of course my daughter will choose for herself, and I will respect her choice either way whether she wants to be labeled as a feminist or not. Will you?

Of course, I don't want Phyllis Shaffley or Sarah Palin to define me or my ambition, I choose not to tell other women what they can or cannot do. And I would never discourage a young girl from following my career choices or from choosing to be stay-at-home wives or astronauts or business owners. I believe everyone (male&female) is happier and more productive when they can choose their own path. You know Max, like you and I did.

And one clarification, I don't wear a badge calling myself a feminist, and since you think feminist is a horrible person, I'd rather you not use any label. I will not shrink from the idea of feminist, even though it's a red flag for some men, I also don't think secular or humanist means you refuse to believe in a God. I think America has become extremely ridged in its tolerance of anything that they fear is different than they are.

I agree with you on this post 100%. (Although I am not sure it is possible to be a stay-at-home astronaut.)

So abolitionists were also wrong by burdening themselves with an ism. Anticolonialists shouldn't label themselves if they want to stick up for indigenous people. As for atheists....

If you were a historian you might have heard of the Chartists, a group who campaigned for universal suffrage in Britain in the 18th Century. They must have been equally wrong. Climatologists such stop giving themselves a label if they want to stop global warming. Their ecologist buddies need to drop the label too.

Pacifists? Pah!

I will give you ¨abolitionist¨. That is a valid counter-example.

The term "Atheist" is also a good example perhaps, but I have had the same argument with Atheists that I have with feminists (check the Atheist thread). I don't believe in any deity, but I don't want to be called an "Atheist". The word has baggage... people have attached meaning to the word outside of not believing in God. I prefer to just say I don't believe in any deity and leave it at that.

The word pacifist is descriptive. It hasn't seemed to have accumulated any political baggage. There is no pacifist brand.

Climatologist and ecologists are names of careers, not labels for political activism.

I get the feeling you're in social group that generally frowns on 'feminism' and 'atheism', I can't think of any other reason why you fear/resent the label for traits you say you have.

In a sense you're in the closet.

Adding to izzy's list
Environmentalist
Altruist
Optimist


I think we can safely say that you can't say a thing is good or bad solely based on if it ends in 'ism' and is practiced by people with a label that ends in 'ist'.

The abolitionism case is interesting because it was a single issue. You either wanted slavery abolished or you didn't. There were no side issues or any complications.

Feminism has all kinds of side issues. By your definition of "feminism" there are pro-life feminists and feminists who don't support equal pay laws. But, I think many feminists would take issue with this idea.

Come on Hingehead. Now you are just picking random words that end in "ist" out of the dictionary. Izzy at least had an example that was intellectually interesting.

None of those are political brands like feminism is.

Really?



http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_altruism


So what you meant to say Was that "feminism is bad unlike any other social 'ism' because I said so"

Well done sir, well done. I salute your Google skills.

that's correct

feminism is very much a matter of self-definition

That's meant to be your effort at apologising for making a statement of error or is it an implicit admission that you don't think facts have any place in forming opinions and discussing ideas?