Democrats Are Risking Political Damnation

foxfyre

What are the chances that Bush is going to say, in a SOTU address or an NBC interview, such a thing? Huh?

Do you have a transcript of Oliver North saying "Hey, I've got this cool idea..." or of Clinton saying "Whoooeee, that was some...."?

I'm actually not trying to convince you of the point. Those quotes were for others here.

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As far as some of Bush's friends saying they believed Bush was called by God to lead at this time, I have heard that preached re Bill Clinton from pulpits twice right here in Albuquerque. Does that mean Bill Clinton would ever characterize himself that way? No.

I can imagine George Bush saying to somebody that it must be God's will that he is in this place at this time. He couldn't be having much fun right now. I don't doubt that he prays for guidance and direction. Does that mean he would ever characterize himself as called by God or that he was told by God to do this or that? No.

At the same time, the thesis of the article that started this thread remains in force. More than 90% of Americans believe in God and more than 75% of Americans consider themselves spiritual or religious. Beat up on GWB re his religion at the peril of ticking quite a few of them off Smile

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Fox, Isn't it grand that we still have "free" speech.

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Yes C.I. though I think now and then one side or the other would like to suppress it a bit. Smile

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foxfrye,

I am glad that you decided to stick around this thread after all.

The following are direct quotes from Bush himself. Let's try to analyze them.

"I also have this belief, strong belief, that freedom is not this country's gift to the world; freedom is the Almighty's gift to every man and woman in this world," he said from the East Room of the White House. "And as the greatest power on the face of the earth, we have an obligation to help the spread of freedom."

"I believe God has called us into action. Our country has got a responsibility, we are a great nation, we are a wealthy nation, we have a responsibility to help a neighbour in need, a brother and sister in crisis."

The first one Bush says that freedom is the Almighty's gift to every man and woman of this world and as the greatest power on the face of the earth we have an obligation to help the spread of freedom. He said that in the context of defending his invasion and occupation of Iraq. So the reason (now-it is ever changing) we went to war with Iraq was because George Bush believes that freedom is Almighty's gift to every man and woman and it is our job to fulfill the gift of God by way of invading Iraq. This is a direct cause and effect of George Bush (in his own words from his own mouth) being guided by his own personal strong religious beliefs into making decisions that effect the rest of the world.

The second case, George Bush believes that God has called United States into action. That God picked us out of the whole world to carry out a mission, what that mission is I guess depends on whatever Bush is talking about at the time. This is a direct quote from Bush while he was Uganda talking about the aides crisis of which has been under funded.

He has made other statements to other people that are recorded in credible articles that give convincing evidence that George Bush has a messiah complex. I'll accept that you disagree.

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This is just the kind of stuff that presidents say. I still maintain that there is nothing more sinister in George Bush saying it than in anybody else saying it. Some samples from the previous administration:

Closing remarks in Bill Clinton's first inaugeral address:

Quote:

And so, my fellow Americans, at the edge of the 21st century, let us begin with energy and hope, with faith and discipline, and let us work until our work is done. The scripture says, "And let us not be weary in well-doing, for in due season, we shall reap, if we faint not." 41
From this joyful mountaintop of celebration, we hear a call to service in the valley. We have heard the trumpets. We have changed the guard. And now, each in our way, and with God's help, we must answer the call. 42
Thank you and God bless you all.

http://www.bartleby.com/124/pres64.html

From Bill Clinton's 1998 State of the Union address:

Quote:

We must exercise responsibility not just at home, but around the world. On the eve of a new century, we have the power and the duty to build a new era of peace and security. . .

We should enable all the world's people to explore the far reaches of cyberspace. . .

http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/P/bc42/speeches/sud98wjc.htm

From Bill Clinton's 1997 State of the Union Address

Quote:

Now, we stand at another moment of change and choice --and another time to be farsighted, to bring America 50 more years of security and prosperity. In this endeavor, our first task is to help to build, for the first time, an undivided, democratic Europe. When Europe is stable, prosperous and at peace, America is more secure. . . .There, too, we are helping to shape an Asian Pacific community of cooperation, not conflict. Let our progress there not mask the peril that remains. Together with South Korea, we must advance peace talks with North Korea and bridge the Cold War's last divide. . . .

Just a few days before my second Inauguration, one of country's best known pastors, Reverend Robert Schuller, suggested that I read Isaiah 58:12. Here's what it says: "Thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations, and thou shalt be called, the repairer of the breach, the restorer of paths to dwell in." I placed my hand on that verse when I took the oath of office, on behalf of all Americans....

http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/P/bc42/speeches/sud97wjc.htm

From Clinton's speech on the threat of Iraq (This speech is very enlightening given the subject on some other threads as well.)

Quote:

If we look at the past and imagine that future, we will act as one together. And we still have, God willing, a chance to find a diplomatic resolution to this, and if not, God willing, the chance to do the right thing for our children and grandchildren.

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/02/17/transcripts/clinton.iraq/

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42?

42 is the call?

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm . . .

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Verse 42 Setanta. At least in the most common versions of the Old Testament used by Christians. (I presume since he quoted verse 41.)

Or maybe it was New Testament. On second thought it probably was. I didn't take the time to look it up.

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Actually, Fox, i was aware of that. "Be not weary of well-doing," from the previous verse, is one of my favorite funny little sayings, one of those few which are worthy of emulation in an otherwise largely arid document.

That was irony, for sake of humor, Fox . . .

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Okay Set. Just a little gunshy I guess Smile

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Just wondering if anybody has pointed out that the original article - which was otherwise well-written - fails to draw a distinction between universal rights and universal rights given by "the almighty."

It is Bush's belief that his foriegn policy ideals are inspired by his God that I and most other liberals object to most.

It also indicates a certain lack of tact. Bush should know that religious references to the war in Iraq wouldn't go over well with the Arab masses. It was reckless and irrepsonsible to infuse his speeches which such rhetoric.

Oh, and this is going beyond the fact that Bush's Christian belief is malevolently retarded.

He is free to believe in a magical baby-killing homophobic egotist. But he doesn't need to advertise that delusion or foist it upon the world.

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Then all U.S. president have been reckless and irresponsible and have been malevolently retarded I guess.

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That statement is only valid were one to accept the thesis you have been flogging, Fox, that Bush is no different in regard to mentions of god than the other Presidents. I should think that by now, you would have realized that the rest of us aren't buying that .

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Foxfyre wrote:

Then all U.S. president have been reckless and irresponsible and have been malevolently retarded I guess.

Indeed, it is a sad fact that all American presidents are obliged to engage in some degree of religious pandering. If they didn't, they would lose the votes of a signifigant portion of delusional magic Jesus believers. That's democracy.

However, Bush has taken foisting to new hieghts.

His comments to Ha-artz that "God instructed [him] to strike Iraq," his proposal to amend the constitution in line with the homophobic nature of his religion, and his repeated vieled references to his God, put Bush in a class of his own.

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Fox is replying to ILZ's continued spewing of hate. She should know better.

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THen Setanta, in all due respect, there is no fact or no evidence that would change 'the rest of your' minds. And you accused me of bigotry.

Word History: Bigots may have more in common with God than one might think. Legend has it that Rollo, the first duke of Normandy, refused to kiss the foot of the French king Charles III, uttering the phrase bi got, his borrowing of the assumed Old English equivalent of our expression by God. Although this story is almost surely apocryphal, it is true that bigot was used by the French as a term of abuse for the Normans, but not in a religious sense. Later, however, the word, or very possibly a homonym, was used abusively in French for the Beguines, members of a Roman Catholic lay sisterhood. From the 15th century on Old French bigot meant "an excessively devoted or hypocritical person." Bigot is first recorded in English in 1598 with the sense "a superstitious hypocrite

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McGentrix wrote:

Fox is replying to ILZ's continued spewing of hate. She should know better.

From certain perspectives, facts are scary.

I spew love. It is not my fault that you are too myopic to understand this.

Or would you have me jump on the Bush bandwagon, slaughter 10,000 innocent civilians, restrict the rights of gay people, adopt an "us vs them" mindset towards the world, base my ideology on a fallacious appeal to tradition, and worship a baby-killing egotist while bankrupting the nation and giving tax breaks to the rich?

Living in a nation run by a man whose intellectual poverty and lack of his own ideology has led him to base his policies on a subjective intrepretation of the bible, the complete assbackwards of faith is vitally important.

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Eh, you give agnostics and atheists a bad name.

What happened? Did God kick your puppy when you were a kid?

Read your last post and ask yourself why you have so much hate in your life. If you gave yourself to Jesus, he would take your pain away.

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IronLionZion wrote:

His comments to Ha-artz that "God instructed [him] to strike Iraq," his proposal to amend the constitution in line with the homophobic nature of his religion, and his repeated vieled references to his God, put Bush in a class of his own.

Just for clarification, Bush did not make comments to Ha-artz. The quoted passage was given to Ha-artz by the top guy in the Palestine Authority who said Bush told him this. Now if you believe that is a credible source, then all power to you.

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Ouch McG.

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Democrats Are Risking Political Damnation

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