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Democrats Are Risking Political Damnation

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Apr, 2004 07:00 pm
It's okay Revel. I'm getting used to vicious on A2K. I gave it my best shot on this thread and have no more to add at this time. So I will accept that my questions will remain unanswered and I exit my bigoted and conceited self stage left.
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Apr, 2004 07:20 pm
errr...shouldn't that be stage right Foxy?
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blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Apr, 2004 07:27 pm
panzade wrote:
errr...shouldn't that be stage right Foxy?
Laughing
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sumac
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Apr, 2004 08:26 pm
Now that is Broadway humor. (snicker, snicker)
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Apr, 2004 08:49 pm
and here all along I thought one of our problems was no exit strategy.
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sumac
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Apr, 2004 09:21 pm
LOL, dys.
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Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 05:23 am
LOL!
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revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 06:13 am
foxfrye

I understand, however I disagree that your questions remained unanswered.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 06:24 am
I asked for any direct quotes from the reams of transcribed Bush speeches and press conferences that would in any way back up what one uncollaborated witness said that George Bush said. I got all kinds of rhetoric and accusations of being bigoted and conceited, but nary one quote in Bush's own words that would support that 'God told him. . . to do anything.' Do you have a quote that would help here Revel? Otherwise my question/request remains unanswered. And I believe the facts dispute the accusations that religion is somehow improperly directing national policy.
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CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 06:30 am
Yes, how is it that when the Saudis deny any deal with Bush about dropping oil prices before the election that everyone here doubts their honesty, but when a foreign paper quotes a Palestine Authority source as saying that Bush said something, it should be believed? Just curious.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 06:40 am
Foxy
What do you think inspires Bush's stand on stem cell research.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 08:16 am
Au writes
Quote:
Foxy, What do you think inspires Bush's stand on stem cell research.


You know I can't answer that. I'm not sure that GWB is personally opposed to it even though he is pro life. The argument against it by the more adament pro-lifers is that it encourages abortion which they view as morally wrong. I respect the conviction that an unborn child is a human life, though I do not share the conviction of some that stem cell research is inevitably connected. I don't know, but I would not be surprised if GWB agrees with me.

It has been a back burner issue, however, as there have been more pressing matters to focus on this last three years. And, practically speaking, the new techniques in cloning will make it unnecessary to use stem cells from aborted fetuses for research.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 08:20 am
After my previous post, I did a quick search and found this speech GWB gave specifically re stem cell research.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/08/20010809-2.html
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 09:00 am
Quote:
"I believe God has called us into action. Our country has got a responsibility, we are a great nation, we are a wealthy nation, we have a responsibility to help a neighbour in need, a brother and sister in crisis."
http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Bush_in_Africa/0,,2-7-1505_1386439,00.html

Quote:
Bush believes he was called by God to lead the nation at this time, says Commerce Secretary Don Evans, a close friend who talks with Bush every day.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-04-01-bush-cover_x.htm

Quote:
George W. Bush told a Houston, Texas, Baptist church that he believed that he had been chosen by God to be a good steward of the nation. In San Antonio, Texas, Alamo City Christian Fellowship pastor David Walker says that as a group of local church leaders prayed over George W. Bush they felt a divine presence anointing the occasion. "We felt God's presence and that He might do something for the nation," he recalls.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2000/150/41.0.html

Quote:
http://www.traditionalvalues.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=808

(this is a recommended read)


special bonus ... on Tom DeLay
Quote:
In Dec. 2002, New York Times columnist Paul Krugman reported that House Majority Leader Tom Delay had openly admitted he was "on a mission from God to promote a 'biblical worldview' in American politics." On Monday, the Washington Times revealed that DeLay "is about to announce his own legislative agenda."
http://www.buzzflash.com/farrell/04/03/far04007.html

and another on Gen Boykin (who bush didn't fire)
Quote:
Gen Boykin has repeatedly told Christian groups and prayer meetings that President George W Bush was chosen by God to lead the global fight against Satan.

He told one gathering: "Why is this man in the White House? The majority of Americans did not vote for him. He's in the White House because God put him there for a time such as this...Gen Boykin told NBC that he would be curtailing his speeches to religious groups. "I don't want to come across as a Right-wing radical," he said."
Too late. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/10/17/wboyk17.xml
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 09:04 am
CoastalRat wrote:
Yes, how is it that when the Saudis deny any deal with Bush about dropping oil prices before the election that everyone here doubts their honesty, for the reasons expressed earlier...they have good and obvious motive to be untruthful but when a foreign paper quotes a Palestine Authority source as saying that Bush said something, it should be believed? Ha'aretz is Israel's most prominent newspaper, also pro-US, and pro-Bush, so there's no small credibility there, unless of course you just don't like any foreign newspaper Just curious.
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CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 09:19 am
blatham wrote:
CoastalRat wrote:
Yes, how is it that when the Saudis deny any deal with Bush about dropping oil prices before the election that everyone here doubts their honesty, for the reasons expressed earlier...they have good and obvious motive to be untruthful but when a foreign paper quotes a Palestine Authority source as saying that Bush said something, it should be believed? Ha'aretz is Israel's most prominent newspaper, also pro-US, and pro-Bush, so there's no small credibility there, unless of course you just don't like any foreign newspaper Just curious.


No, what I find difficult to accept as fact is any paper reporting a quote by a Palestine Authority leader who is purporting to quote any American president. If I were on a jury and this is what was given me as evidence of someone elses words, I think I would laugh the evidence out of court. Very little credibility if you ask me. But again, just my opinion. Others may believe everything a newspaper prints is the gospel truth.

Now if the reporter had been there and gotten the quote directly from the mouth of Bush, then it would have at least a little believability.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 09:32 am
Again Blatham, all the sources you linked are what other people say that George W. Bush said and all are out of context. I want to see direct quotes in context from verifiable transcripts of speeches and/or press conferences.

I don't doubt GWB did tell Africans that God would want the USA to help victims of AIDS as I do think he believes that. But comments made in casual conversation or to limited audiences can give us an idea of a person's beliefs and/or mindset, but it cannot be used as proof that policy is made based on these beliefs. I would imagine we could find numerous occasions where any president or any high official from any administration have made casual comments in various settings that would cause storm and fury if said as policy in a speech or press conference.

So my challenge stands. Find something in a transcribed State of the Union, any other informational or policy speech, or press conference that GWB is any different from any president we have ever had in his use of invoking God, faith, and/or religion.

I've seriously looked and have found nothing.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 09:33 am
Rat, Most of us come to conclusions about what we read from prior information about president Bush. Most of us have heard him mention his ideas about god's choice to make him our president. That alone tells me this guy is psychotic.
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 09:33 am
I have to agree with you Coastal. At this stage I give that quote no credence. But Blathams postings have shown Bush to believe he is leading a Crusade. And those of us with a little history recall can remember the results of the last Crusade.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 09:37 am
coastal rat

If you check the sources (eg Washington Post) they all acknowledge the accuracy questions. It's not a certainty.
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