What would you do?

The person whom you create a new life with creates a bond that undeniable whether you continue to love that person or have a day to day relationship with him/her. Creating life together ties you forever...even if the child you created together dies.

As for you wanting...hoping to have a relationship with his wife/ex-wife, I don't think many women are open to being on friendly terms with the other woman. I think your expectation was a bit naive and unrealistic.

Please stop spending so much time analyzing thier relationship. What goes on in their household and between them is THEIR business. As long as you inject yourself in their lives and their decision making you will NEVER get on with your own.

Now that hurt. I qualified what I wrote as venting. This whole thing makes NO sense to me and makes no sense to professional therapists that know both he and I, and our history. But I suppose "society" will never see me as anything more than a slut, a whore and a home wrecker, as if neither of them played a part in the destruction of their marriage before I was anywhere on the radar screen. Why would I ever expect anyone to understand that I truly loved him and he loved me? That was the naive and unrealistic part. Society fears what it doesn't understand and has to put me in a box marked X.

I guess my emotions really took over on this one and I'm sorry. It's just the attitude I've gotten from most people through the years- the other woman always seems to be seen as the bad one, that if she'd just go away everything would be perfect. I'd edit but I see it's already been read a lot of times and I don't know by who. Please understand I am NOT trying to INJECT myself into their decisions or their lives, I'm just trying to make sense of something that doesn't seem to make sense to anyone. I'm trying to find closure because I can't ask him these questions or know that the answers I'm getting are true. He won't talk to me.

Let me give you one last example. The night before he told he it was over we had a talk about his possibly going back there. I was still trying to convince him not to go. I asked if he had discussed this at all with his wife and what her thoughts were. His answer was that he hadn't talked to her but he thought she would allow him to come back "if it was for his daughter". Now either he lied to me, and in the process lied to her about his involvement with me, or he's back there pretending to be something he's not. Suddenly overnight being abandoned and banished from his life after making promises to me might be the "right" thing to do in the eyes of his family, or society, but I don't understand how someone so sensitive and caring about so much over the years does that to another person they care about.

That's an experience I lost out on and it's not going to happen now. I almost had his child about 4 years ago but nature had other plans after just 2 months. Nature ended any opportunity permanently about a year ago.

I am so very sorry to hear that sad news.

Camille. I had an affair with a married man that I have forthrightly said a few times on a2k that I am not sorry about. It was a long time ago but a high point of my life. I am fully aware, painfully, of the opposite way of thinking, as a married woman later. Have you heard condemnation from me? Doglover has spoken forthrightly of affairs and she is married. Whatever the diffficulties with that, she is not calling you a slut. Nobody here has, which.. I must say, has kind of surprised me, that no one who feels lashingly about these matters has posted. I am certain people have misgivings, but no one has treated you as you as ascribing.

We all - I think it is all, might be wrong - want you to absorb that your life is going to go on away from him. It needs to.
That we all want you to not equate your relationship of twenty years with him as Your Life is not to deride you in some way, quite the opposite. You seem not to be even conceiving the possibility that you need to move ahead and be your own person. We want you to open your eyes.
He has left you.

If he ever comes back, he has still left you.
This seems mean to mention, but it is the subject of the thread.

Straighten your shoulders, walk on.






And I said before I wouldn't give any more advice. Ok, now I won't.
But if you need support in walking on, I'm here.

If tomorrow starts without me,
And I'm not there to see,
If the sun should rise and find your eyes
All filled with tears for me;

I wish so much you wouldn't cry
The way you did today,
While thinking of the many things,
We didn't get to say.

I know how much you love me,
As much as I love you,
And each time that you think of me,
I know you'll miss me too;

But when tomorrow starts without me,
Please try to understand,
That an angel came and called my name,
And took me by the hand,

And said my place was ready,
In heaven far above,
And that I'd have to leave behind
All those I dearly love.

But as I turned to walk away,
A tear fell from my eye
For all my life, I'd always thought,
I didn't want to die.

I had so much to live for,
So much left yet to do,
It seemed almost impossible,
That I was leaving you.

I thought of all the yesterdays,
The good ones and the bad,
I thought of all the love we shared,
And all the fun we had.

If I could relive yesterday,
Just even for a while,
I'd say good-bye and kiss you
And maybe see you smile.

But then I fully realized,
That this could never be,
For emptiness and memories,
Would take the place of me.

And when I thought of worldly things,
I might miss come tomorrow,
I thought of you, and when I did,
My heart was filled with sorrow.

But when I walked through heaven's gates,
I felt so much at home.
When God looked down and smiled at me,
From His great golden throne,

He said, "This is eternity,
And all I've promised you."
Today your life on earth is past,
But here life starts anew.

I promise no tomorrow,
But today will always last,
And since each day's the same way
There's no longing for the past.

You have been so faithful,
So trusting and so true.
Though there were times
You did some things
You knew you shouldn't do.

But you have been forgiven
And now at last you're free.
So won't you come and take my hand
And share my life with me?

So when tomorrow starts without me,
Don't think we're far apart,
For every time you think of me,
I'm right here, in your heart.

Camille

I'm very concerned about you. Please PM me if you need to talk to someone.

Camille ~
(I've been silent, because I've been listening. I want you to "get it all out" so you can move forward.)
But, don't do this to yourself. You are coming across exceedingly depressed. You MUST seek help for yourself. You need support. You need perspective. If you don't feel helped or comforted by your current therapist, find one who does help you. They are as different as people can be. If you look enough, you will find one.
~This is hard, awkward and upsetting for me to say. It seems on the surface, that your guy did not walk away from you because it was better for you. It seems he walked away because it was better for HIM. Try to stop thinking about what is better for him. At this point, he, it seems, is already doing this for himself. Try to think about what is better for you, without him Camille. Do it now. (Said to strongly encourage.)
I hope one day he'll see you for the truly loving person you are. But, if that day never comes, it doesn't change who you are. It's his loss. Please don't make it ours too. The people who have stood by you, when he has not.
~This is equally as hard, awkward and upsetting for me to say. Maybe, he is not speaking with you because you won't hear the words he has already told you. It's over.

I only mean to help you see, you seem stuck in the past and the memory of him. When the present, your present life, needs your attention and effort.
I don't expect anyone here to agree with me, I am just trying to give you another wake-up call.
PM me if you need to talk. Best, J.
(((((((((((((((Hugs))))))))))))))

Thank you for speaking again, jacquie.
Your strong, kind and supportive voice is good to hear.
I wish we'd hear from you more often.

Here's hoping that Camille is finding strength from her God in church today.

I received a gift today that I am thankful for. I received the gift of someone's time and offer of friendship. That someone was doglover.

There was a talk today given by a local group for separated/divorced people on "When Life is Unfair". I told doglover about it in PM and she informed me she was going to be there and how to recognize her.

I have much appreciation to doglover for giving up her Sunday afternoon to come to a group that she had nothing in common with to meet me and be with me today. So thank you doglover for your time, your caring, your listening and your hug. I haven't had a hug in over 5 weeks and it was unexpected but felt really good.

OMG! How wonderful!!!

DL, you are doing something so many of us have wished we could do! I am in your debt!! You are a sweetie!!!

<<<<goosebumps>>>>

I think he already knows the loving person that I am but it got lost and overshadowed in those last weeks or month. We were both coming from places of fear and so self absorbed in our own anxieties.

All the time he knew about his daughter and didn't share it with me I knew something was wrong, I sensed it, I voiced it with great concern. His behavior was changing and I thought it was about his son's prognosis at the end of the year and his guilt over not doing enough, his parents move from the family home to the retirement community, all major changes in his life on top of his already non-stop responsibilities in a new career and night classes required for the new career.

Knowing from past experience that high emotions near holidays and trauma usually wound up with a return to "what used to be" my fear took over. I didn't want to lose him after we had come so far after so long. It was finally within our reach. If I had known about his daughter I don't know if I would have been better or worse. Part of me wants to believe I would have understood and been supportive and loving but there is another part of me that wonders if I wouldn't even be more afraid of losing him and demonstrated all the fearful things I did those last few weeks. I wanted so much to share this awful experience with him, to be there for him, to be the one he turned to for love and support. But how could I be that when I was so lost myself?

My biggest regret is that we didn't even have a chance to try to work through this with a professional to help us define the feelings and find ways to get through this horrible time together. That's what was supposed to happen that day in my therapists office. If we could have learned how to express those feelings in different ways, or pull together instead of apart, I believe we'd still be together.

I suppose I'm resigned that I'm in a situation now where I can't win, his daughter's cancer and prognosis of death has taken control of all his emotions and he's made the ultimate sacrifice, his own happiness, for her dying wish- no matter how unrealistic that wish may be. After all the avenues we have taken together, all the trials and tribulations we have faced and conquered, all the workshops, therapists and apartments, I will never believe this is about rebuilding his marriage. This is a raw gut reaction to grief and fear, to try to recapture a point in time 20+ years ago for his daughter, a time that will never come back. Someone reminded me recently that one of the things I always said I loved about him was his devotion to his children and he wouldn't be that man I loved if he wasn't devoted to his daughter right now.

I AM stuck in the past in many ways. I love him and always will. He has been my heart and my soul, my lover and my best friend, my companion and "soft place to land" for as long as I can remember. When everything else was gone, he was still there loving me, and me loving him. I don't want this to be over and I'm being forced into a life I don't want to live. Whether this is temporary or not only God knows. All I can do now is pray that if we belong together God will touch his heart and bring him back to me according to His plan, and for God to help me to find my way now. I will continue to pray for him, for me, and everyone involved, that someday, somehow we all find peace.

Camille...spending the afternoon with you was truly a blessing in my life. Thank YOU for spending time with me. I am humbled by the kind words you publicly expressed here on A2K. I'm here for you as often and for as long as need me and want to grace MY life with your friendship. My arms are here to hug you anytime you feel the need. The person I met today is a beautiful person...a woman of great strength and character. After meeting you Camille, there is no doubt in my mind that you WILL make it through this difficult time in your life.

Take care my friend with the 'Lassie' liscense tags on her car.

That's nice, doglover.

This is all good to hear.

That is great!

I'm not sure if I'm happier that someone reached out, or that someone reached back. I'm sure doglover put a whole girlgang's worth of feeling into that hug.

Camille, I wish that hug hadn't been unexpected. I wish you knew that any one of us here would really hug you if we were close enough. My real-life experience with A2K'rs is ... we're real life huggers.

{{{{{h u g}}}}}

{{{{@@@@@@ HUGS[/b] @@@@@@}}}}

You are right, ehBeth, absolutely right. Hugs to both of you, Camille and Doglover.

Yep, major huggers.

Go doglover! And go Camille, too, for being receptive. That is a skill, itself, being willing to come out of that deep dark place. It's sometimes so much easier to stay.

Really nice news. :-D