What would you do?

Camille wrote:

Eva wrote:
We can hope, Camille, but the truth is, some people live and die without learning that. If he hasn't learned that by now, with all he's gone through, perhaps he doesn't want to learn.

At any rate, it's time for you to move on. Why should you waste the rest of your live waiting to see if he learns? It isn't worth it.

Glad to hear you're hanging in there. I know it's rough. Be good to yourself. Learn to love yourself. Treat yourself the way you would treat him. You deserve that.

Define "move on". What am I supposed to do? I can't erase this from my memory like it didn't happen. It hurts!

Just for a minute, Camille, I want you to think about something. Let's say someone treated your best girlfriend the way he's treated you. I think you'd be furious. You'd swear she deserved better. You'd try to find a way to make things better for her, wouldn't you. Of course you would. Well, I don't think you're treating yourself as well as you'd treat a friend under the same circumstances. I think you need to learn to love yourself. To stick up for yourself. To demand better treatment for yourself.

"Moving on" doesn't mean forgetting. It means telling yourself, "Okay, that happened. It's over. Now it's time to do something different"...and taking steps to build a new and better life for yourself. One without dependence. One without guilt. One with some peace & serenity instead of constant crises. That life is out there if you really want it. It won't be easy, but it's worth the work.

Next time you check in, let's hear what your goals are.

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Adding to the chorus. :-D

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Chorusing goals
Chorusing exercise
Chorusing vegetables
Chorusing meditation
Chorusing positive self-talk

<I need a losenge>

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I am best in a chorus, especially on those days when I don't know if I should be first or second soprano. Maybe I'll hum a bit.

<Positive, supportive humming.>

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And I'm good at lyrics!

Take some Time to ---
Get a new hair cut AND color Camille!
Get a manicure AND pedicure Camille!
I hear SWEDISH massage is great Camille!
See a new MOVIE Camille!
Take those DOGS for a long walk Camille!
Go OUT to eat for once Camille!
And Smile at your reflection Camille!

Okay, okay it needs some work...
I hope it made you SMILE Camille!! Very Happy

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Damn, I cannot carry a tune. It's been proven. Perhaps I'll do the drums...

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Camille...I dedicate these lyrics to YOU and your future...and a new beginning.

'I WILL SURVIVE'

First I was afraid
I was petrified
Kept thinking I could never live
without you by my side
But I spent so many nights
thinking how you did me wrong
I grew strong
I learned how to carry on
and so you're back
from outer space
I just walked in to find you here
with that sad look upon your face
I should have changed my stupid lock
I should have made you leave your key
If I had known for just one second
you'd be back to bother me

Go on now go walk out the door
just turn around now
'cause you're not welcome anymore
weren't you the one who tried to hurt me with goodbye
you think I'd crumble
you think I'd lay down and die
Oh no, not I
I will survive
as long as i know how to love
I know I will stay alive
I've got all my life to live
I've got all my love to give
and I'll survive
I will survive

It took all the strength I had
not to fall apart
kept trying hard to mend
the pieces of my broken heart
and I spent oh so many nights
just feeling sorry for myself
I used to cry
Now I hold my head up high
and you see me
somebody new
I'm not that chained up little person
still in love with you
and so you felt like dropping in
and just expect me to be free
now I'm saving all my loving
for someone who's loving me

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In the same spirit, I offer these lyrics from an old anthem...

"And I know too much to go back and pretend
'Cause I've heard it all before
And I've been down there on the floor
No one's ever gonna keep me down again

Oh yes, I am wise
But it's wisdom born of pain
Yes, I've paid the price
But look how much I gained
If I have to, I can do anything..."

Rx: Sing twice daily until symptoms improve...

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sozobe wrote:

This perspective includes the remembrance that I felt that people were losing patience with me when I took too long to recover, the resentment I felt that they listened sympathetically to me the week after but were no longer as sympathetic after two months. And I wasn't recovered after two months.

So there's that perspective..

Thanks for understanding this part. I'm not "recovered" after 5 weeks and don't think I will be any time soon. Everyone is not going off into the sunset to some happy life except me. Everyone in this situation loses, grieves and gives up hopes and dreams forever and most of us don't get to die and escape it and that's what makes it all so much more tragic. Crying or Very sad

I'm feeling very, very sad right now. I caught the tail end of Frasier and his last broadcast at the end of the show really hit hard. I won't spoil it for anyone on another coast or timeframe. Let's just say his words just made my loss even harder to bear tonight.

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sozobe wrote:

So I would like to contribute to that chorus, with the caveat that I understand that it takes time, that just because a month has passed it doesn't mean that you are ready to pick up the pieces. But you will be, and we want you to be healthy, and so we continue to say, without fatalism but with great hope, you can do it Camille, it's time to move on Camille, make sure you eat enough Camille, and make sure you exercise Camille.

Take care.

Thanks for being there to all of you and your continued support.

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You can do it, Camille.
Eat well, sleep properly, walk an hour or so every day, take care of yourself.

Rent Pirates of the Caribbean and laugh yourself silly. Rent Some Like it Hot, and laugh some more.

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You CAN do it, Camille. And you'll come out the other side stronger than ever.

(I gotta see Pirates of the Caribbean.)

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Soz - you have absolutely gotta! (... and have you looked at the Columbus thread?)

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ehBeth wrote:

You can do it, Camille.
Eat well, sleep properly, walk an hour or so every day, take care of yourself.

Rent Pirates of the Caribbean and laugh yourself silly. Rent Some Like it Hot, and laugh some more.

I own Pirates. We saw it together, both loved it and when it came out on DVD had to have it. I hope there is a time I can watch it again, enjoy it and not remember happier times that have now gone dark. How do you NOT think about him when so many reminders, so much sharing of every day is there?

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sozobe wrote:

You CAN do it, Camille. And you'll come out the other side stronger than ever.

I have to survive the next 10 minutes, then the next 10 minutes. I don't know if I'll come out stronger, bitter or resigned. Right now I would gladly trade my life for his daughter's. The future looks very dark.

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Camille wrote:

How do you NOT think about him when so many reminders, so much sharing of every day is there?

In my experience - in part, it is a very conscious decision you have to make. Saw it with him before, seeing it alone or with someone else now. Having a good time watching it now.

That's not to suggest it's easy, but it's something you have to DECIDE to do. It is an active, versus a passive response.

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ehBeth wrote:

Camille wrote:
How do you NOT think about him when so many reminders, so much sharing of every day is there?

In my experience - in part, it is a very conscious decision you have to make. Saw it with him before, seeing it alone or with someone else now. Having a good time watching it now.

That's not to suggest it's easy, but it's something you have to DECIDE to do. It is an active, versus a passive response.

I'm going to vent here. I don't know if anyone has any ideas or insight into this area. If you do, please tell me.

You know what I can't get out of my head? How can SHE trust him again? Why would SHE let him come back again? Why does SHE always let him come back? Does she really think that 20 years with me and all that's happened the past 7 years isn't going to have an impact, that it's not going to matter? Does she really think he just stopped having feelings for me overnight when his daughter was diagnosed with terminal cancer? Is she going to pass over his grief at our relationship ending as grief over his daughter?

I know I've asked myself the same questions and at least from this vantage point I know how hard he's tried to get over the guilt and family manipulation, the therapy, the Divorce Care, etc. The past few years no matter what he went through confirmed for him it was the right decision to make because the marriage was over years ago. It is a sick, cruel joke from God to take his kids and force him back there again. It sets up expectations for everyone that he's returned to the marriage out of love for his wife. It's all lies. What good can come out of living lies? What will they have when his daughter is gone? They've had nothing but the kids as a common bond for decades.

I keep thinking about the new therapist saying that this is a reactive move and the chances of their marriage surviving losing both kids and having a long term emotional relationship and so many separations are slim to none.

I wish I understood the bond with a child that would make someone give up not only their own life, but destroy so many other lives, live a life of lies, to do something that goes against the truth for everyone.

If I could, I would find a way to stop this madness, but I know I can't control him, or anyone else. Hell, I can't even control me anymore.
Crying or Very sad

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speaking of control-
I think the control stuff is a defensive thing I learned because I could sense a trigger coming for him that would take him over the edge emotionally and set him back to square one. So I'd try to head it off. I started trying to reason with him and show him the patterns. But I don't know that he really saw the patterns because he was so overwhelmed with his own hurt, his own grief, his own guilt. I should have just let him alone to sort through things but this time I pushed and pushed and pushed because I've never been so scared of losing him.

He said when I would try to reason with him I was trying to manipulate him or tell him what to do. I was always honest about what I hoped he would do but tried to interject a bigger picture than just the small focus he would have, the impact to everyone involved. The irony is the manipulation has come from his family and his wife who constantly kept using morality, parental approval and the kids to manipulate him with guilt. For them it had to be either/or. For me it was both - why can't there be good relationships with everyone and for us both? There has been divorce in my family and I know families adjust. I expected he and his wife would remain friends. At one time I hoped she and I could become friends as things evolved over time. At least I can say my motives were purely out of love and wanting him to be truly happy. I never asked him to choose between his family or me. I only asked to be included in his family.

We had something so very special all these years and now it's gone, after coming so damn close to having it all. Now, everybody loses. What kind of sick God does this? Crying or Very sad

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Camille - love of children always seems to over-ride anything else.

I don't know his wife/ don't know him, but I'm guessing that in part her thinking would be that he never committed to you, so he didn't uncommit from her. I know that I have friends who have thought that way. Figured as long as the ex didn't remarry AND have children - their bond was still THE real one.

She's probably always wondered why you thought his feelings for HER had ended, since she's the mother of his children.

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ehBeth wrote:

Camille - love of children always seems to over-ride anything else.

I don't know his wife/ don't know him, but I'm guessing that in part her thinking would be that he never committed to you, so he didn't uncommit from her. I know that I have friends who have thought that way. Figured as long as the ex didn't remarry AND have children - their bond was still THE real one.

She's probably always wondered why you thought his feelings for HER had ended, since she's the mother of his children.

Being a good mother is not the same as being a loving wife, and it does not equate to having a good marriage. I know some people here have said I never really had him, but she hasn't had him as a loving husband either all these years, all she had was a piece of paper and kids to manipulate him. They had something once, a long, long time ago, but not for the past 20 years. He wouldn't have been cheating on her all those years if he was "committed" to her. He wouldn't have left over and over and lived away from her more than with her the past 7 years. When both kids are "gone" what will be left of "them"? Nothing but shared tragedy.

I don't know, I could be completely wrong, but it feels like someone else said about this false idea of getting back to "normal" and taking the "safe" way, the path of least resistance. "Normal" doesn't exist for anyone involved in this anymore and none of us will ever be the same. The path of least resistance brings nothing but regret because you betray your own soul.

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