What would you do?

Camille, sure, I don't think you need to be silent on this at all. A very tricky balance indeed -- it is indeed his decision, but a decision that will undoubtedly impact you. As such, you have some say.



If there is no pretending involved, at all, that could be OK. Just -- he is staying there to be closer to her, and understands that she doesn't want to meet you, even though he would like her to meet you and will be happy to introduce you when she changes her mind. No phone calls seems ridiculous, but I can see no visits if she really doesn't want to meet you.

My parents divorced when I was 13, my dad was horribly lonely for a long time, and when I was 21 I set him up with a nice lady. They have been together ever since, and I really like her, but she is simply not even close to the same category as my mom or my dad. If I were sick, I'd put her in the same category as friends from college, say, not at all the same category as my parents. And that's someone I like, a lot, and have known for about a dozen years.

The Act thing definitely disturbs me, for reasons that many people but especially dlowan have laid out. I've also experienced how awful the "acting" can be at the end of life. You can maybe provide him some literature on this kind of thing, if you would like -- a Google search on "hospice" and "honesty" would probably get you some good things, to start with. My mom has worked in hospice situations most of her career, I can ask her for some specific suggestions. I bet dlowan, who also mentioned this, would have some specific suggestions as well.

But my point is you can make it not just about you -- "I think this is a bad idea" -- but more empirical facts about the badness of the idea.

So, Camille, the son's suicide attempt was only about six months ago?

That is a tiny amount of time. And still totally unresolved.

No wonder the poor man's thinking is everywhere!

I think all of Soz's suggestions are excellent.

Yes. Agree.

The elephant in the room here is death. Arranging an act around it is really strange to me, though I know it happens a lot.

The whole no phone calls thing is ridiculous. Your fellow isn't a child. The parents are not married. Other things happen in the world. A film to rent (I mean it, not being flip here) might be "Good-bye Lenin!" In it, the mother has had a heart attack and her doctor tells her kids, no more stress or it'll be bad for Mom. So the kids (it might be just her son) stage things so that it appears as if Communism has never fallen. Farce? Sure. Impossible to do for long? Absolutely.

Providing him with a room to stay in, in order to be close and not have to drive home, is courteous but shouldn't be a place he has to be in every second of every single day. Sick people sleep. They go to doctors. They do other things. And the daughter is still going to work and whatnot.

Dad need not be imprisoned in the house while the daughter does her thing, remaining constantly on tap for her every whim. "Oh, I'll call at 3 PM and make sure Dad's there." "Oh, I'll call at 3:05 PM and make sure Dad's there." I assume that wouldn't be happening so the bottom line is that devotion is, of course, fully appropriate and expected, but constant, unwavering, nothing else exists-type devotion is not.

The whole thing is, of course, wrapped up in the son's suicide attempt and current condition. If only they'd been there! If only they hadn't turned their backs for a second! If only! If only! If! If! If!

Well, and I don't mean to be cruel here, but their daughter is very likely going to die soon, and it will happen whether they turn their backs or not. Being there for her is, like I said, perfectly appropriate and good. They'd beat themselves up even more if they weren't there for her. But that doesn't mean they need to be wrapped around her finger. And I mean both her parents. For her mother, while the idea of Dad "coming home" might stoke reconciliation fantasies, it should also bring up some bad feelings. After all, Mom didn't emerge from the divorce unscathed (no one really does). So putting up her own front is not good for Mom, either.

As soz said, the request isn't some dying wish to plant a tree or go to Aruba or the like. It's, rather, an unreasonable and inappropriate attempt at wish fulfillment. Even "Make A Wish" doesn't do stuff like this. A sick child might want to really, really be a major leaguer, but "Make A Wish" doesn't turn the kid into a Detroit Tiger. Instead, they take the kid to a Tigers game or two and they make sure he meets the guys in the clubhouse. But the kid doesn't get a contract to play in the majors. There are limits.

In your situation, of course, everything is also wrapped up in whether you want to continue the relationship or perhaps have to walk away from something that is good or at least was. And I suspect you are at least partly concerned that by leaving you will be dumping more on someone who you've grown to care about and who you don't want to hurt further.

I can't tell you what to do, of course, I can only offer suggestions. I think an ultimatum - me or them! - is unwise. There may be a value, though, in withdrawing a bit. While I know you want to be there, it appears that you may not be able to be there much, even if your man refuses to move in and start the charade. After all, he'll still be there a lot, and it's been made clear that the owner of the house (his ex) doesn't want you there. It may help things, at least for you, to not be around as much.

Do you lose him if you do this? I can't tell the future. But it may make it easier for you if the whole thing ends - at least you'd have less emotionally invested in all of it. If you were in the trenches every day, and it ended anyway, you'd feel a lot worse, I suspect. He should not, though, assume that you will do nothing but sit around by the telephone and wait for him to come back, or be available for him at his beck and call. He's not the sick one and he doesn't get to make these kinds of demands, either.

You need not totally end the relationship if you simply ask to cool things off and perhaps become nonexclusive during this crisis. Will that hurt him? It won't be fun news to him, but better now, while the daughter is still ambulatory, than when the daughter is on her deathbed and guilt is keeping you together, rather than love.

WOW, everthing you said was so intense, so well thought out. I appreciate it so much.

But there is this one part I don't understand. What guilt would be keeping he and I together? Or did you mean keeping the parents together?

Well, what I mean is - if you go through the whole thing, and find yourself exhausted at the end of it and beaten down by the charade or any attempts at a charade, but you also see he's hurting, you may find it difficult to leave. And that's even if you decide at that point that it would be a good idea to go. Do you stay because you feel guilty about going?

I'm not saying that would necessarily happen but my concern here is that you'd be wrung out like a dishtowel by this and then of course the end result is the same - the daughter still dies, the son is still in a coma, and the hard feelings still exist between you and the ex and who knows what the rest of the extended family thinks. You're not married to him, but you might find that you feel overly committed if you are in the trenches and experience all of it with him (this isn't necessarily a bad thing; I'm just trying to see where you can have options here).

I don't want to seem mercenary about this, but I think when people are not married, not engaged and not living together, having an exit strategy isn't a bad thing. If you go now, it'll be a lot easier on you and on him than if it ends later, after the daughter has passed away and after, like I said, you've been wrung out. He has to be there. He is committed and yes, he's going to be wrung out. But you have a choice. This is not your family. While you care very much for this man, you are not in a fully committed state, so far as I can tell. If you were, this would not be an issue; your fellow would have gotten himself out of the charade by himself. He would have set the limits on his own. But he isn't. I am not saying that he doesn't love you but it does strike me as curious that he is letting himself be possibly swayed by this impossible request. Like I said, if the ex is offering him a guest room for snowy late evenings, that's courteous of her. If she's offering him a charade to pretend that they're still together, why isn't he running, fast, in the opposite direction? Why isn't he setting the limits here?

I don't know. I blame it on guilt but I really don't know.

I think rationality goes out the window when one's child is involved... even one's grown child. (She's still so young, though.) With his son's suicide, I'm sure any vestiges of rationality have been trodden upon thoroughly.

So, his irrationality makes a certain amount of sense to me.

That goes back to the separate issues, though -- I can understand his perspective while still wishing the best for you, Camille. And I think you have a right to do what is best for you, in the long run.

I didn't mean to upset you, Camille, and I regret if I have.

It's not you that's upsetting, it's the situation. I really love him and we planned to build a life together. What you said makes a lot of sense. I haven't been able to get your words out of my mind.

I thought I knew what was best for me, before this.

I'm so sorry... what an awful situation.

What I want to emphasize with the parental irrationality thing is that I don't think his willingness to entertain the possibility has anything to do with you, at all. I think for most any parent, if there is a competition between the child and the spouse, much less the significant other, and no matter how wonderful the spouse/significant other, the child will win. Period.

And all of that natural irrationality -- it's what got us this far, after all (protecting our young) -- has been ratcheted up several notches by the horrible situation with his son.

Have there been any new developments?

I dunno, Soz, that is not true across the board, the siding with the child. Often women don't protect the girl child, siding with the spousal abuser..., plus other possible situations - sorry, off subject, just that the child isn't always the focus. Let me just back off and say I think the parent child bond is often incredibly strong.

This situation is so difficult, with the mass of guilt (often not appropriate, but just there) that impends when a child has tried suicide. I haven't been in the situation, but I imagine conflicting emotions and at the least increased sensitivity, if only guilt for anger. One could be angry at the child for dying on you, as spouses and friends many times are. All part of loving relationships.

That's true, Osso. I know there are sometimes complications... I think the default mode is that the parent wants to protect the child, no matter what.

I just worry that Camille thinks that her man's willingness to even think about this is a commentary on her or their relationship, when I think it too easily could be completely beyond that. (I.e. no matter how wonderful she and the relationship are, that wouldn't impact his willingness to consider this folly for his daughter's sake.)

I edited a few times, soz, but only to clarify. Yeah, I don't think it is a commentary on Camille herself at all, except that she is there as the loved person, even if there is a backing off. What a hell of a situation.

I don't suppose, Camille, that he could be steered to some counseling time? I would even be chary of suggesting it yourself, better if a male buddy said so. Heh.
Or maybe I missed that he is in counseling. Am a little scattered here m'self.

You hit it right here. I feel like our relationship must not be very important to him for him to even consider throwing away us. I feel rejected, I feel like roadkill and I feel like "what's wrong with me?"

He's been in counseling for a long time. He's on counselor #3. The first one he stopped seeing when he was separating because he thought he had his act together. Nope, so counselor #2 came into the picture and helped work through all the issues of leaving a long term marriage. He moved to the west coast so he was referred to counselor #3, who got him through the separation stuff and has been with him through the son's suicide attempt and now this. All total it's been about 3 years he's seen someone.

I've been seeing someone myself because of my issues dealing with all the stuff with his son. I suggested we go somewhere together but he's too absorbed in his daughter's situation.

His daughter got the results of the latest scan and the chemo they changed to did shrink it a little. They did another chemo today.

The prognosis is the same. Eventually the chemo will not work and she'll die or too much chemo will kill her. It's the amount of time that is completely unknown. This is a very fast growing resilient cancer. From experiences within my family, I'd say she has less than a year.

It sounds like you're doing all the right things, Camille. And again, really, I think this could be the most perfect relationship in the universe and he still would be thrown into complete disarray about what to do about his daughter.

I hope that he figures these things out enough to articulate as much to you, but as an outsider without knowing the whole story, I think he could be absolutely crazy about you and still do everything you say that he is doing.

Just saw the update. Just awful, for everyone.