What would you do?

Camille wrote:

Two weeks before he said goodbye he actually talked about maybe giving up the apartment and moving in permanently.

Camille, he was never really there with you. Tough to say, worse to hear.

You are eventually going to see that. In the meantime, you need to bring the focus to taking care of yourself. Your life is NOT about him, it is about you.

He has gone back to his family, perhaps permanently, perhaps temporarily. He has made a choice.

You need to finally look to yourself. Take those dogs for walks, take yourself to lunch, do volunteer work - get out and DO things. Talk to your therapist and listen as well.

Defending him, protecting him, does him no good - and is not going to help you either.

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ossobuco wrote:

Oh, Camille.

Begging someone to reconsider and love you, to stay, is historically problematic. It rarely works, usually increases the person's desire to stay away, and even if it does work, works on a guilt system, which I think the fellow has quite enough of, re his various abandoning issues/actions (I hate the word 'issues').

I'm wasn't going to ask him to reconsider loving me. I was going to ask him to reconsider walking away from us and going back to a marriage because his daughter is dying. As I've said, nobody wins and everybody hurts this way. It's not good for anyone.

That's what all this is about- GUILT. From the day he left the marriage his whole family has heaped guilt on him- for leaving the marriage, for being with me, for not being there for his kids, for leaving his wife "alone" (she has family within a block of her, friends and is involved heavily with the church), for not being there for his son and stopping him from trying to kill himself, for being the only one that thought the feeding tube should be pulled, for his daughter's cancer coming back....and now the daughter's dying wish that mommy and daddy get back together. You name it, they have piled the guilt on him and have never let up.

When she found out he was seeing someone, she did nothing. When he left and went back she did nothing to try to save the marriage. All she would do is use the kids to manipulate him and make him feel guilty he wasn't there. For a while, when his son was married and his daughter was at college it didn't work and he moved forward, but after his son's attempted suicide and the daughter returning home from college, it all started up again- from his wife, his parents, his kids. He's been manipulated by just about everyone, could never seem to set limits with his family or do what was best for him- he was always too guilty about everybody else. I suppose this way there is only one person he has to feel guilty about now- me, but what his family "wins" is superficial.

That's why I'm having such a hard time with this. He had come so far in finally going forward with HIS life, HIS/OUR happiness, and he's getting sucked right back into that whole control/dysfunction of the family guilt.

You're right, I can't change him or make him see anything unless he's willing to see it or feel it himself, but is it wrong to want to at least try to stop something that is fake and based on guilty and destroys us all?

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ehBeth wrote:

Camille wrote:
You are eventually going to see that. In the meantime, you need to bring the focus to taking care of yourself. Your life is NOT about him, it is about you.

He has gone back to his family, perhaps permanently, perhaps temporarily. He has made a choice.

You need to finally look to yourself. Take those dogs for walks, take yourself to lunch, do volunteer work - get out and DO things. Talk to your therapist and listen as well.

Defending him, protecting him, does him no good - and is not going to help you either.

I know my life has become totally one of being involved in his life and being drawn in to all of the tragedy and emotional crisis of the past few years that followed all of the tragedy and emotional crisis in my own life. Part of that is because when the other parts of my life fell apart, it was all I had left. There is a lot of me invested in 20 years and probably an even bigger part of me invested in the past 7 years.

I am forcing myself to do things. I'm still involved with my kennel club, my pet therapy and started back with a spiritual study group. I think what makes it so bad is I really don't have any local friends that I can be with. Going to the group stuff is ok, but the connection of being with someone that cares about you, that's there for you and you for them, that "soft place to land" is gone. I feel really abandoned and scared.

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Camille, he made his choice.

In 20 years, he didn't manage to move on. Feeling guilty, and fake, are probably emotions he is familiar with. Trying to pursue discussion with him now, I can't see how it could bring anything but more pain to you.

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Abandoned and scared. I understand that. I think quite a few of us here do.

If it had been obvious 20 years that a man with a wife and 2 tiny children was never really going to leave, things might have been different, but you couldn't predict that.

The 'soft landing spot' is comfy with someone else there, but it has to be there just for you too, and it's up to you to develop that.

This is not an easy time for you, Camille. I think everyone has acknowleged that. You've really had a big shock, and coming back with big moves is not going to be possible. Tiny steps, tiny improvements - you can do it. Start with refocusing on the positives of the group things you are doing.

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jespah wrote:

Of course everyone's said this in a nicer way than I have. I'm the bull in the china shop; I'm just echoing them. I do hope you'll think more of yourself. You are important enough to be cared for. You are important enough to be loved. You are important enough to be healed.

I don't know that I'm there. Part of me feels like there is nothing in the future for me and I'll be that lady on the porch swing, or in the nursing home, wondering what would have happened if only. I really feel like that leaf that is caught in the current that can't get out. (I ordered the book BTW) I know part of that is the major depression, but the meds aren't really doing much this time. Therapy is getting me nowhere. I feel like she sits there and listens and I pay her money, and after the way things happened that last day with him, I don't trust her anymore.

I'm finding more help in the spiritual study group than anywhere else. There are people there that have been through hell much worse than I and they have found a certain peace and a meaningful life beyond the tragedy. If I can't find that somehow, life is just existing.

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ehBeth wrote:

Abandoned and scared. I understand that. I think quite a few of us here do.

If it had been obvious 20 years that a man with a wife and 2 tiny children was never really going to leave, things might have been different, but you couldn't predict that.

The 'soft landing spot' is comfy with someone else there, but it has to be there just for you too, and it's up to you to develop that.

This is not an easy time for you, Camille. I think everyone has acknowleged that. You've really had a big shock, and coming back with big moves is not going to be possible. Tiny steps, tiny improvements - you can do it. Start with refocusing on the positives of the group things you are doing.

I'm not expecting any great leaps or instant peace. It's not possible for anyone. I think the biggest thing right now is feeling cut off from life in so many ways. I've been trying to 2 1/2 years to get out of my job and away from the negativity there. It seems like whatever I've tried I get beat up more and back into the darkness. Sometimes you just want to give up completely and let the darkness take over. I've been battling depression, questioning who I am and where I belong for the past few years. The dogs are what keep me having a purpose, a reason for being, at this point.

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There is no denying that pets (dogs in my case) can make a great difference in our lives. I'd say I've learned more about love from my dogs than from any human (sorry to Setanta and hamburger and mrs. hamburger)

I'm glad you've got your canine friends right now, Camille. Listen to them when they let you know how much they love you.

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Your spiritual study group sounds really good, like a very positive step being made just for you. Good for you!

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ehBeth wrote:

Feeling guilty, and fake, are probably emotions he is familiar with. Trying to pursue discussion with him now, I can't see how it could bring anything but more pain to you.

I hope someday he learns to honor his own feelings. I have a feeling he's going to have to learn that lesson through a lot of loss and pain ahead. Crying or Very sad

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jespah wrote:

Your spiritual study group sounds really good, like a very positive step being made just for you. Good for you!

There are two people there that lost kids, one at 7, one at 17. There is a woman who's husband abruptly left after 35 years with no warning. There is a guy who is now a counselor for an addiction treatment center that used to be an alcholic and druggie. Probably 1/2 the people there came at a time of great loss, crisis and pain and ready to give up on life. It's not a religion, it's more of a spiritual psychotherapy.

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We can hope, Camille, but the truth is, some people live and die without learning that. If he hasn't learned that by now, with all he's gone through, perhaps he doesn't want to learn.

At any rate, it's time for you to move on. Why should you waste the rest of your live waiting to see if he learns? It isn't worth it.

Glad to hear you're hanging in there. I know it's rough. Be good to yourself. Learn to love yourself. Treat yourself the way you would treat him. You deserve that.

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Well, I am going to hang it up, posting on and on about someone else's life, which by definition is none of my business..
I am no doubt the oldest person here giving opinions, which precipitates one last one -

A personal crunch like this happened to me when I was 52, took a while to devolve, and now I am 62. Those are precious years in your life to come into your sense of self. I hope you cut the dwelling on him and rebuild yourself. You don't seem to be listening to any of us or us all together on this, I presume from fear of the abyss of going in the other direction, away from this cataclysm.
Going away from it is not without problems, I won't promise you that, but has a lot of new rewards.
I am not going to belabor this any longer, it's your life, good luck.

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I had better take a powder, too.

I'm too ....instructive.

Wish you health and happiness, Camille.

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ossobuco wrote:

Well, I am going to hang it up, posting on and on about someone else's life, which by definition is none of my business..
I am no doubt the oldest person here giving opinions, which precipitates one last one -

A personal crunch like this happened to me when I was 52, took a while to devolve, and now I am 62. Those are precious years in your life to come into your sense of self. I hope you cut the dwelling on him and rebuild yourself. You don't seem to be listening to any of us or us all together on this, I presume from fear of the abyss of going in the other direction, away from this cataclysm.
Going away from it is not without problems, I won't promise you that, but has a lot of new rewards.
I am not going to belabor this any longer, it's your life, good luck.

Please do not feel you are intruding. I wouldn't be on a public bulletin board if I thought you were intruding. I also wouldn't worry about the age thing. I'm 54.

It's not that I'm not listening, I'm just having a hard time trying to "move on". There has never been a time when I thought he'd be gone from my life unless he died. The way it happened, the circumstances with his kids, the promises leading up to it.....it's all such disbelief.

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Eva wrote:

We can hope, Camille, but the truth is, some people live and die without learning that. If he hasn't learned that by now, with all he's gone through, perhaps he doesn't want to learn.

At any rate, it's time for you to move on. Why should you waste the rest of your live waiting to see if he learns? It isn't worth it.

Glad to hear you're hanging in there. I know it's rough. Be good to yourself. Learn to love yourself. Treat yourself the way you would treat him. You deserve that.

Define "move on". What am I supposed to do? I can't erase this from my memory like it didn't happen. It hurts!

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Sofia wrote:

I had better take a powder, too.

I'm too ....instructive.

Wish you health and happiness, Camille.

No, you're not too instructive. I'm taking everything in that everyone says. It's all rolling around in my head. It's just my head is still spinning.

I don't know what I'd do without all of you to talk to and listen to.

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Everyone,

I can't tell you how appreciative I am of all of you. Some nights a response from someone, even if it was something I didn't want to hear, was what held me together. Please don't give up on me too.

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I will always listen here, Camille, but I am done with my advice giving.

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Hi Camille,

I've been reading along, Osso and others have been giving you such great advice, I've been mostly silently nodding. Will jump back in.

First, a month is both very long and very short. I know that when I experienced the loss that yours reminds me of, though it was much less dramatic (first love, lived together, I was only 20 when we broke up), it took me longer than a month to get out of the phase you are in. What helped me? A lot of writing, and then gradually getting into exercising more and more. Became a really good pick-up basketball player. :-D

Anyway, as I read, I have two conflicting impulses. One is, yep, I understand, it takes time, it takes venting, vent away. This perspective includes the remembrance that I felt that people were losing patience with me when I took too long to recover, the resentment I felt that they listened sympathetically to me the week after but were no longer as sympathetic after two months. And I wasn't recovered after two months.

So there's that perspective.

The other, though, is that it can be curative to have a bunch of caring people saying, in an ongoing chorus, you can do it Camille, it's time to move on Camille, make sure you eat enough Camille, make sure you exercise Camille -- even if you are unable to take all of that advice, the giving of it and the receiving of it can have its own effect. So I would like to contribute to that chorus, with the caveat that I understand that it takes time, that just because a month has passed it doesn't mean that you are ready to pick up the pieces. But you will be, and we want you to be healthy, and so we continue to say, without fatalism but with great hope, you can do it Camille, it's time to move on Camille, make sure you eat enough Camille, and make sure you exercise Camille.

Take care.

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