Another unarmed black teenager shot in Florida

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

It is the same thing and having live where there was almost no police protection for months and no way to call for what police protection there happen to be for months I saw with my own eyes the benefits of having arm citizens and a neighborhood watch not armed with handguns but with shotguns.

You have lived in a country without police? Where was it?

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

You have lived in a country without police? Where was it?

Country the US, location the Homestead Florida area, time 1992 after Andrew a stage five Hurricane wiped out the infrastructure for the whole damn area.

No phone, no power but for generators for many months on end. Most roads impassable or barely passable at the cost of flat tires for a month or more.

National guard mainly patrolling the cities of Homestead and Florida city not the must larger surrounding areas and the Federal government send the airborne in but without allowing them to have bullets for their rifles.

Fun time indeed and firearms was carry openly until things got back to normal by a large percent of the citizens including postage employees that by federal law was never to be armed around postage property or when on duty.

Strangely that period I remember most strongly for how nice everyone was being to everyone else in helping each other out. Of course I was not in the areas where the local streets gangs was giving the airborne troops a hard time after finding out that they did not have bullets for their guns.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
even a high school course in statistics will teach you that the more people totin' shootin' ahrns there are...the more shooting that will result.
\

Sorry CC holders have a good record of being law abiding citizens in fact better then the general public as a whole.

REALLY!

You have mentioned often that both you and your wife carry guns.

The statistics clearly show that it is much, much, much more likely that one of you will shoot the other...than that you will use your guns to stop an assault on yourselves.

The statistics clearly show that it is much, much, much more likely that one of you will use one of the guns in a suicide...than in the stopping of an assault on yourself.

You are dreaming, Bill, if you think the guns you carry have more protective value than they have of danger to yourselves and society. You are so far off base on that, it staggers the imagination.

I quote YOU on this: Some people seems to get off by finding irrational reasons to be frighten however such fears are not good reasons to created public policies.

And that is why I fear the so-called law abiding gun carrying people (like you and your wife) much more than I do criminals who might harm me.

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

And that is why I fear the so-called law abiding gun carrying people (like you and your wife) much more than I do criminals who might harm me.

That doesn't make any sense at all Frank.

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@McGentrix,

McGentrix wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
And that is why I fear the so-called law abiding gun carrying people (like you and your wife) much more than I do criminals who might harm me.

That doesn't make any sense at all Frank.

It makes plenty of sense, McGentrix. All it takes is for you to open your mind.

I have a much better chance of staying out of troubled areas where violent criminals are many...than I have of staying out of areas where there are "law abiding citizens" packing heat these days.

The "law abiding citizens" "protecting themselves by carrying guns" scare the **** out of me. The criminals really don't.

Don't know why that doesn't make sense...but the fact that it does not make sense to you does not make sense to me.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

If they are law abiding, what would happen to make them draw their weapons and use them on you? Are you a criminal? Is that why they scare you?

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@McGentrix,

McGentrix wrote:

If they are law abiding, what would happen to make them draw their weapons and use them on you? Are you a criminal? Is that why they scare you?

McG...what frightens you?

I have told you what frightens me. Just accept that.

What on Earth, considering all the "accidental shootings" that occur by "law abiding citizens" who carry guns makes you think they limit their shooting to criminals.

For every "criminal" shot by a "law abiding, gun carrying citizen" in this country...there are probably hundreds of non-criminals shot.

You are living in a dream world if you do not recognize and acknowledge that.

I fear them not because I am a criminal (which I most assuredly am not)...but because they end up shooting each other and other non-criminals much, much, much, much, much, much, much more frequently than the shoot crimials.

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@Frank Apisa,

Do you have some examples of " shooting each other and other non-criminals much, much, much, much, much, much, much more frequently than the shoot criminals."?

It must be commonplace where you live. But, I have to confess that I do not have recollection of that happening in my neck of the woods.

What frightens me? People trying to take my rights away because of their own fears.

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@McGentrix,

McGentrix wrote:

Do you have some examples of " shooting each other and other non-criminals much, much, much, much, much, much, much more frequently than the shoot criminals."?

Yeah. Go on the Internet and look up the statistics...then you will have them too.

Quote:

It must be commonplace where you live. But, I have to confess that I do not have recollection of that happening in my neck of the woods.

It is very commonplace where I live. Very, very commonplace. I live in the United States. Sorry, I thought you did also.

Quote:

What frightens me? People trying to take my rights away because of their own fears.

I see. Thank you for sharing that.

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@McGentrix,

People get "scared" all the time. The question is what do you do when you get scared. Do you sit back and see if your fear is rational? If you have a gun, another possible response is to go for the gun. I posted a link some time ago with a small subset of a week's listing of road rage gun incidents. Someone cuts you off in traffic and maybe flips you the bird, you get "scared" and then guns are involved. My favorite was the guy who was road raging with another guy who he ended up hitting in front of his house. He left the scene of the accident, ran inside and came out shooting because he was "scared". The guy he was shooting at? On the phone with police reporting the accident. When I was in the Navy, some of the guys taught one guy's wife how to shoot. She then got into a parking lot argument about who got to a spot first, pulled the gun and started shooting. The window to the local matress store was the only casualty so I guess then didn't teach her very well. Did she feel "scared" or "threatened"? Probably. Was pulling a gun a rational response? Doubtful.

1 Reply

@engineer,

So, you are saying stupid people should not have guns? Tough to argue against that. Fortunately, not all gun owners are stupid like your examples.

I am sure that for every example you can give there are 50 people that have a gun that have never had cause to use it and were not stupid enough to abuse it.

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@McGentrix,

I agree and I'm sure you could. Unfortunately, there are a lot of stupid people. Even if they are outnumbered 50-1, that means that 2% of the people you pass on the road or in the store are gun-stupid. That's a lot of people pulling guns unnecessarily.

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@McGentrix,

Quote:

What frightens me? People trying to take my rights away because of their own fears.

One of the main demoKKKrat fears is that their own voting blocks are going to so decimate themselves with firearms that they start losing elections.

Personally, I don't have much of a problem with that so long as they keep it to themselves.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

The statistics clearly show that it is much, much, much more likely that one of you will shoot the other...than that you will use your guns to stop an assault on yourselves.

The statistics clearly show that it is much, much, much more likely that one of you will use one of the guns in a suicide...than in the stopping of an assault on yourself.

My wife and I fear shooting each other and wear body armor at home and to bed due to that fear!!!!!!!!

Silly person with or without firearms violence inside of a family is a risk and I would not need a firearm or any weapon but my bear hands if I went crazy and decided to killed my wife and she could picked up a knife from the kitchen and knifed me in my sleep if the reverse was true.

However the risk of that happening in my household is zero.

1 Reply

@McGentrix,

Quote:

If they are law abiding, what would happen to make them draw their weapons and use them on you? Are you a criminal? Is that why they scare you?

Maybe he fear one of them would annoy him enough so the poor man unknowingly would try to beat the **** out of an armed man or woman?

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@McGentrix,

Quote:

I am sure that for every example you can give there are 50 people that have a gun that have never had cause to use it and were not stupid enough to abuse it.

Once more there is a million CC license holders in Florida alone roughly ten times the number of police officers in the state.

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@McGentrix,

Quote:

Statistics on shootings

— In 2010 in the U.S., 606 people died from an unintentional shooting.

— In 2011,14,675 people were wounded in an unintentional shooting but survived.

— In 49 percent of unintentional shooting deaths, the victim is shot by another person.

— Thirty-three percent of U.S. households have a gun, and half of gun-owning households do not lock up their guns, including 40 percent of households with kids under age 18.

— A gun in the home is 22 times more likely to be used in a completed or attempted suicide (11 times more likely), a criminal assault or homicide (seven times more likely), or unintentional shooting death or injury (four times more likely) than in a self-defense shooting.

— Most unintentional shooting deaths occur in the home (65 percent), based on data from 16 states. The most common context of the death (30 percent) was playing with the gun.

Source: Brady Campaign to End Gun Violence

source

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
The statistics clearly show that it is much, much, much more likely that one of you will shoot the other...than that you will use your guns to stop an assault on yourselves.

The statistics clearly show that it is much, much, much more likely that one of you will use one of the guns in a suicide...than in the stopping of an assault on yourself.

My wife and I fear shooting each other and wear body armor at home and to bed due to that fear!!!!!!!!

Interesting.

Quote:

Silly person with or without firearms violence inside of a family is a risk...

I did not say it was not. I was saying that if PEOPLE OWN GUNS...the chances of them shooting each other is greater than for people who do not.
Not sure why you would want to argue with that observation, but...you gotta deal with your logic.

Quote:

...and I would not need a firearm or any weapon but my bear hands if I went crazy and decided to killed my wife and she could picked up a knife from the kitchen and knifed me in my sleep if the reverse was true.

That should have been "bare" hands, but let's let that be.

Of course you could kill each other with knives if you choose. BUT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT SHOOTINGS...and as I said, if guns are around, shootings are much more likely than if there are no guns.

Understand????

Quote:

However the risk of that happening in my household is zero.

I seriously doubt the risk of that happening is "zero" in any household, Bill. Try to stay focused.

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@revelette,

An this in a nation of over 300 millions including young children with over 300 firearms IE more then one firearm for every man and woman in the nation.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

I seriously doubt the risk of that happening is "zero" in any household, Bill. Try to stay focused.

I do not care what you believe as my family and my wife family have guns in households going back a number of generations that we know of and not one person were harm in any way by having those weapons unless you count my father feelings being hurt when my mother would out shoot him in public.

1 Reply

Another unarmed black teenager shot in Florida

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