12
   

What do You Make of Obama Pushing Hot Buttons Right Now?

 
 
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2012 11:48 am
Two weeks ago it was homosexual rights, this week it is amnesty for illegal immigrants.....what does this mean to you?

Is this intended to help him hold onto his job?

If so will this help?

Does this show that he has the strength of his convictions damn the torpedoes or does this rather show desperation?

Is this about legacy, where he is convinced that one day the vast majority of Americans will support his new public convictions and he wants the history books to say that he was the first President to be on the "right" side of these issues?


My take: This is a desperation move to try to recover the MOJO he had the last time he was campaigning, but it will not work because it will fire up his haters more than those who love him. The only thing Americans care about is the economy, and being so desperate to change the conversation proves that Obama is not our guy going forwards.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 12 • Views: 4,628 • Replies: 111

 
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2012 12:21 pm
There is no justification for a 0 rating on this thread. MY MY, how A2K has fallen. I predicted this.
contrex
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2012 12:26 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

There is no justification for a 0 rating on this thread. MY MY, how A2K has fallen. I predicted this.


There is every justification for a zero rating of any thread started by you.

hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2012 12:31 pm
@contrex,
Quote:
There is every justification for a zero rating of any thread started by you.


How very high school.....

What is your excuse for no discussion of this on A2K up till now, independent of me? This action from Obama is very worthy of discussion, and yet there is none. I think this shows that A2K increasingly does not work.
Sturgis
 
  3  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2012 12:49 pm
@hawkeye10,
Well, Hawkeye, welcome to Liberal Land.

I recently commented in negative manner about Obama and was soundly thrashed and called a Republican. I told Thomas (one of my accusers) and the others that my voting record is not at all solidly Republican and that I have voted for several Democrats, including Clinton term one. I also voted for Walter Mondale. Thomas shot back that I hadn't berated the Republicans on this board, I told him to check my threads.

Obama on Gay marriage was a stunning split second turn around. 2 months ago he was adamantly against it, then a puff of smoke and indication there were votes he needed and he had an interview to say he's for it. If he really is, then why a private staged and filmed interview? Why not an open lecture?

With these rights for young illegals, he has already called it 'stop gap' and it would not surprise me in the least for him to prance up to the podium in February/March of next year and say he really can't do anything about the current laws, "gee whilickers, Congress and Senate have to do that" and then refuse to respond to questions.

It's all politics, same as when Bill Clinton signed Welfare Reform. No, actually, I think Clinton may have actually believed he was doing right by the people. I get no sense of that out of anything which Obama does. He serves only himself.

I don't usually involve in politics here because it is one sided. If you don't side with the Democrats you will be sliced and diced. Say anything at all redeeming about any Republican and you will be skewered.

Same sort of thing happens in religion threads as atheists and agnostics waltz in and tell any believer that they are all wrong. It's why so often I leave a 'debate' because it really isn't one.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2012 01:02 pm
@Sturgis,
Quote:
It's all politics, same as when Bill Clinton signed Welfare Reform. No, actually, I think Clinton may have actually believed he was doing right by the people. I get no sense of that out of anything which Obama does. He serves only himself


Clinton was always fucked in the head, but with him we always had some idea of how he got that way and also of who he was. I think with Obama even after 3+ years in office we are still saying "who is this guy??". THIS is the reason everything looks calculatingly political, because we are forced to assume that it is.

Another point....shouldn't anyone who can not show us who he is after this long in front of us be disqualified from continuing to lead us? Last election there was a decent excuse for choosing an unknown, we were desperate and McCain appeared to be senile, and maybe the unknown Obama could save us. None of this applies this time, this time logic suggests that no matter how dimly we perceive Romney he is still the only option. Obama has failed in office, and he is even more shadowy than Romney is.....hitting the "eject" button is the smart play here.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2012 01:31 pm
@hawkeye10,
Obama is taking assertive action now, but has always supported these issues. It's not like he's suddenly for the Dream Act and while he did not advocate for gay marriage in the past, he has clearly supported gay rights, so I guess the question is why now? I think some of it is politics and some of it is recognition that there is no reason to pretend to play nice with the Republicans now that election season is upon us. Coming across as a moderate works when you want to negotiate. We're past that phase now. Given that we have deadlock in Congress, Obama probably has a unique time period where he can do things by fiat that should probably come out of the legislative branch and he seems to think that works to his advantage.
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2012 01:39 pm
@engineer,
Both of these actions are the right things to do for the country, but they are also damn good political strategy.

Romney hates picking sides on any issue. The same sex marriage issue is a loser for the republicans, and the immigration issue is an issue the Romney desperately wants to avoid (as he is caught between his need to keep his right wing base happy with his need to reach out to moderate voters including Hispanic Americans).

Romney has no clear answer on these issues. Obama does.
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2012 01:41 pm
@engineer,
Quote:
Coming across as a moderate works when you want to negotiate. We're past that phase now


That ship sailed a long time ago, after the "grand bargain" on the budget fell apart, and after Obama's DOJ attacked the states for immigration laws which uphold US immigration laws which Obama would like to see voided but for which he cant get the votes in Congress to void.

You explanation does not hold water.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2012 01:44 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Romney has no clear answer on these issues. Obama does


Romney is a shape shifter, but my impression is that he is now and has been clearly against expanding gay rights and is clearly for upholding US Immigration Law.

Quote:
his need to reach out to moderate voters including Hispanic Americans).


Your assertion that Hispanics tend to be moderates has not been shown with facts. Also, Hispanics tend to not vote, often because they are not legally eligible to vote but even if they are they shun the polling places. It is not clear that Romney's position on enforcing Immigration law hurts him AT ALL.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2012 02:04 pm
@hawkeye10,
Romney was unable to say even whether he would reverse Obama's executive order on deferred action for undocumented immigrants. That speaks volumes. Romney is still trying to flip and flop his way out of difficult issues and these actions paint him into a corner.

And, you are wrong about Hispanic voters. In key swing states like New Mexico (41% of 2008 voters were Hispanic) and Colorado (13% of 2008 voters) significant portions of their electorate are Hispanic. If Obama wins 80% of these voters (as polls suggest) in elections that are generally won by 2 or 3% of the electorate, this spells big trouble for Romney.

You may be right that Romney's position can't hurt him at all (that is if he had a clear consistent position), but would be because with the Republican brand so damaged with Hispanic voters he has already lost these votes anyway.
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2012 02:10 pm
@maxdancona,


Romney doesn't even try...

Romney is going to have to give an answer for what he would do as president. I don't think he has a good answer that doesn't turn off his base or completely give up on a key voting bloc in important swing states.

It is damn good move, politically speaking, for Obama to be pushing solutions for these problems. It paints Romney into an uncomfortable corner.
gungasnake
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2012 02:30 pm
@hawkeye10,
The guy is clearly desperate and is grasping at straws.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2012 02:33 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Obama, who polls show has lost some support among white men, is looking to make up some of that by attracting more Latinos, of whom a record 10 million voted for him in 2008. First he’ll have to convince them to register. This year, 21 million Latinos are eligible to vote, but less than half of them are registered. And then he’ll have to get them to the polls. In 2008, half of eligible Latinos voted, compared with 66 percent of eligible whites.

The president will also have to persuade Latino activists that this isn’t just an election year stunt. Under Obama, the number of deportations has reached record levels, doubling the average during President George W. Bush’s first term. Immigration officials have put more pressure on businesses that hire immigrants. And Obama hasn’t delivered on his campaign promise to make comprehensive immigration reform his “top priority


http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-06-15/obama-one-ups-romney-on-immigration

So much for the idea that this is clear win at the ballot box for Obama. I certainly think he expected his pro gays rhetoric to be a win, but now that he has alienated blacks more than he already had this is in doubt.

Quote:
Romney is going to have to give an answer for what he would do as president.


He did, a long time ago....he said that he would veto the Dream Act. Obama is again doing what we have seen him do so often of late, he has charted new ground on Presidential powers so that he can do what he wants to do even though he cant get the votes in Congress to make the law he wants to make. The just mentioned new amnesty program is basically the Dream Act by wy of the back door. I know we almost all hate Congress, but Obama should keep in mind that we hate Putin even worse. His following Putin's lead in obliterating Constitutional separation of powers because Obama wants what he wants and he wants it now will at some point hurt him at the ballot box, and will sour his legacy.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2012 02:36 pm
@hawkeye10,
We will see Hawkeye. But I don't think Hispanic American leaders will see this as a stunt. Far from it, this is exactly what the Hispanic American activists have been asking for. They are grateful.

See for youself...

http://www.univision.com/
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2012 02:43 pm
% of Eligible Voters Voting By Race (2004-2008)*:

All Voters- 2008: 66.1% 2004: 67.2%
Non-Hispanic Whites- 2008: 63.6% 2004: 63.8%
Blacks- 2008: 65.2% 2004: 60.3%
Hispanics- 2008: 49.9% 2004: 47.2%
Asians- 2008: 47.0% 2004: 44.6%

It would be interesting to see Registered vs Eligible voters.

*Pew Survey
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2012 02:45 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

We will see Hawkeye. But I don't think Hispanic American leaders will see this as a stunt. Far from it, this is exactly what the Hispanic American activists have been asking for. They are grateful.

See for youself...

http://www.univision.com/


Each activist gets only one vote, same as me. You might have noticed that net illegal immigration to the US has stopped, in large part because the economy is in poor shape so there are no jobs, even for easily exploitable illegal Mexicans. If Reg Hispanics decide that Romney is a better option to drive job growth then they likely will hold their nose and vote for Romney. I know of no evidence that Hispanics are the exception to the rule "it is the economy, stupid!".
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2012 02:52 pm
@realjohnboy,
Hispanics were only 7.7 % of the vote last time, and it is not like they all voted for Obama

Quote:
According to the national exit poll, 64% of Hispanic males and 68% of Hispanic females supported Obama


http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1024/exit-poll-analysis-hispanics

Pissing off Hispanic rabble rousers is probably not a great way to get votes, but we dont have much evidence that it losses very many either. All this chatter about how fucked Romney is for pissing them off comes across to me as yet more Democratic delusion. Again and again we find them out of touch with reality, and with where the people are, I think this is more of that.

Tell me John, do Hispanics matter much in the swing states where this election will be decided? That would be the only way Romneys stance could hurt him, and that is assuming that either the Dems figure out a way to get Hispanics to vote or that Romney ever had a chance of getting their vote in the first place. What about a place like Wisconsin, will voting non Hispanics decide that non voting illegals are weakening their options in the job market and thus reward Romney for wanting to do something about it??

It is not at ALL clear to me that this is a winner for Obama....this looks all the world like desperation.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2012 03:12 pm
@hawkeye10,
correction...hispanics were 7.4%

Blacks were 12.1%...how many of them will stay home this time because

a) They have been totally fucked economically since Obama has been running the show

b) Obama is champion of the immoral fags (the view of most black churchs)

c) Obama has refused to champion black causes...he is black in name only.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2012 03:22 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Tell me John, do Hispanics matter much in the swing states where this election will be decided?

Fair question. I write on the A2K thread "The U.S. Elections For President, Senate..." etc. and this will end being discussed there.
I noted there that it is naive to lump people into the up Hispanic category. Cuban-Americans vote differently then Mexican-Americans, for example.
I'm moving this weekend so will be around much.
 

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