12
   

What do You Make of Obama Pushing Hot Buttons Right Now?

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2012 12:51 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
She is now a legal US citizen but in fact she had always been an American.


Wrong, she may well have deluded herself into thinking that she was an American (or her parents might have deceived her), but she was not an American until she was in fact an American. Aspirations are not current facts, nor are lies told to kids.

I am shocked to see such sloppy thinking from you Bill.
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2012 12:58 am
I'm with Bill on this one. If they speak with an American accent, they're Americans.If they've been enculturated as Americans, they're Americans. If they think of themselves as Americans, they're Americans. And the laws should damned well recognize that.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2012 01:00 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
These so called "American as you and I" people are in fact not Americans at all, they are Mexicans, Salvadorians, Guatemalans,........


Oh so my step daughter was a Canadian in any manner but the legal one even those she was raised as an American on American soil since she was two weeks old by American citizens parents?

Those children are Mexicans, Salvadorians, Guatemalans even those a large percent of them do not even know the language of those countries and never been to them since early childhood or infanthood?

By the way why was all your examples of such people from South American countries?

Looking down on South Americans perhaps?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2012 01:02 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

I'm with Bill on this one. If they speak with an American accent, they're Americans.If they've been enculturated as Americans, they're Americans. If they think of themselves as Americans, they're Americans. And the laws should damned well recognize that.


If people are what ever they say they are then deciding authority and documentation are pointless, which is where your line of reasoning ends up. I trust that you know enough about human nature to know that this will mean that a great many people will be what ever is most profitable on any given day.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2012 01:05 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:


By the way why was all your examples of such people from South American countries?

Looking down on South Americans perhaps?


Quote:
LLEGAL IMMIGRANTS
Gathering a true picture of the number of Illegal Immigrants is notoriously challenging and fraught with error, but the U.S. Department of Homeland Security attempts to estimate this yearly. (OhMyGov has also reported on other efforts to measure the illegal immigrant population in the U.S. which suggested far higher numbers.) From these estimates, the top 10 countries that make up the illegal population in the U.S are as follows*:
Country
#
% of total
Mexico
6,650,000
61.9%
El Salvador
530,000
4.9%
Guatemala
480,000
4.5%
Honduras.
320,000
3.0%
Philippines
270,000
2.5%
India
200,000
1.9%
Korea
200,000
1.9%
Ecuador
170,000
1.6%
Brazil
150,000
1.4%
China
120,000
1.1%

http://ohmygov.com/blogs/general_news/archive/2010/05/14/top-10-legal-and-illegal-immigrant-nationalities-in-the-u-s.aspx

I started at the top of the list and worked my way down.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2012 01:09 am
@hawkeye10,
Sorry Hawkeye but I see all such people as my fellow country men and women and will do my very best to stop people such as you from causing them and their love ones harm due to the actions of their parents that they had no part in.

The law need to be change to offer that protection to them as a class in the mean time Obama did the right thing and I am happy that I had voted for him and will do so again.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2012 01:10 am
hawkeye:
Yes. If they think they're Americans, they are.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2012 01:18 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

hawkeye:
Yes. If they think they're Americans, they are.


But since you have no way to know what they really think what you are in truth saying here is "If they say they're Americans, they are.". Given human nature then your view is in line with what was argued about three years ago here by either Thomas or Craven that countries should have no control over the movement of people, because the people have the right to go where ever on this Planet they wish. This is nuts, because without controls there is never going to be anymore civilization, because as soon as anything worthwhile is built anywhere the savaging hoards will move in to consume it.

Your ideology is in conflict with human nature. It is your ideas which will have to change.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2012 01:20 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
If people are what ever they say they are then deciding authority and documentation are pointless,


Legal documentations/laws should reflect the reality of the situation not denial it and when the legal docs/laws are out of tune to reality they should be change not using them as a crazy justification to deport what is in fact Americans to counties they have no ties to.


hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2012 01:27 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
If people are what ever they say they are then deciding authority and documentation are pointless,


Legal documentations/laws should reflect the reality of the situation not denial it and when the legal docs/laws are out of tune to reality they should be change not using them as a crazy justification to deport what is in fact Americans to counties they have no ties to.





and yet you are the same one who agrees with me that a womans state of mind does not make a man a sex criminal, as we know the feminists claim.

Wow. Just Wow.

So is there some method to your madness of separating when claimed states of mind must be taken as reality without question or quibble , and when they are not to be??
engineer
 
  4  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2012 05:57 am
If you view President Obama's implementation of a defacto Dream Act as a political move, it seems to be very effective. Every news story I heard this morning is about Gov. Romney ducking the question of what his policy would be.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2012 06:36 am
@engineer,
So issues have been debated for years and then they suddenly become hot buttons when someone actually does something? That seems a little presumptuous to make that claim.

Obama acts as a leader and does something and that makes him wrong? I guess we want our politicians to sit on their hands and let the country go to hell. That would explain the tea party.
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2012 08:07 am
@parados,
I don't fault the President for finally taking some common sense action, but for those who think this is strictly politics, apparently it is good politics in that it has drawn a distinction between the two candidates; one that Romney was not ready for.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  5  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2012 08:10 am
@hawkeye10,
Sorry anyone raised in the culture of this country and assuming the values of this country since infanthood or early childhood is a member of this country just as must as you are or I am.

My wife signing a paper or not signing a paper in the 1960s did not turn my step daughter into an American or not except in the legal sense as she is an American because she is part of the culture of this nation and no other nation and have been for all but of the first few weeks of her life.

The laws should be of a nature to recognize this plain fact and not allow people like you to harm my fellow country men/women due to a lack of such paperwork.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2012 09:11 am
@hawkeye10,

Quote:
These so called "American as you and I" people are in fact not Americans at all,


That is an interesting question. What makes American? Are you an American because of your values, love for country, you culture and your way of life?

Or are you just an American because of where you happened to be born.

I happen to agree with these young people... I am American because of who I am and what I value, not because of where I happened to be born.
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2012 09:38 am
@parados,
Quote:
So issues have been debated for years and then they suddenly become hot buttons when someone actually does something? That seems a little presumptuous to make that claim.

Obama acts as a leader and does something and that makes him wrong? I guess we want our politicians to sit on their hands and let the country go to hell. That would explain the tea party.

The issues have been hot button for years. During the first 3+ years of the Obama administration they were important. Gay rights, the dream act, these are matters which have been of great importance to many. Unfortunately President Obama did not really address these until this year, after the election cycle had already started. That, is what is at issue, not the idea of them being discussed. That, is what many (myself included) have found problematic. I am glad he has finally spoken on certain matters; however, I wonder why he did not do so earlier and as I have indicated to people in the past, I wonder whether he will stay the course on these or will he change his tune after the election.
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2012 09:46 am
So Willard Romney has now been running for President full-time for six, count-em, six years, and he still doesn't stand for anything discernable. If he's president, gods forbid, he will work for "comprehensive immigration reform". Wow. Every politician has said that for years now. Any specifics as to what that means, Mitt? Well, no.
Quote:
Neither Romney nor McCain offered any specific outline of what the presumptive Republican nominee's alternative immigration plan would accomplish. The term "comprehensive" has long been a buzzword among conservatives who who oppose a process toward citizenship — or even some sort of legal status — for illegal immigrants, which they view as "amnesty


Obama's making a start, amnesty for kids, something he might actually be able to guilt-trip the "Forward, back to the glorious times of 1850" Repuiblican House into agreeing to. What's Mitt said? Nada.Six years and you still haven't come up with any concrete ideas, Mitt? We really need decisive, incisive leadership like you provide, Mitt (for the sarcasm-challenged among us, that was sarcasm).
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2012 09:58 am
@Sturgis,
Sturgis wrote:

Quote:
So issues have been debated for years and then they suddenly become hot buttons when someone actually does something? That seems a little presumptuous to make that claim.

Obama acts as a leader and does something and that makes him wrong? I guess we want our politicians to sit on their hands and let the country go to hell. That would explain the tea party.

The issues have been hot button for years. During the first 3+ years of the Obama administration they were important. Gay rights, the dream act, these are matters which have been of great importance to many. Unfortunately President Obama did not really address these until this year, after the election cycle had already started.


This is in large part, I believe, because he was holding out hope that the GOP would be willing to work with him on some of these issues going forward. That they weren't just totally out to destroy them. Per reports, he gave up on that after the debt ceiling debacle last August - he couldn't believe the GOP was willing to wreck the whole ship in order to try and seize power from a minority position. Which is still incredible if you think about it.

Quote:
That, is what is at issue, not the idea of them being discussed. That, is what many (myself included) have found problematic. I am glad he has finally spoken on certain matters; however, I wonder why he did not do so earlier and as I have indicated to people in the past, I wonder whether he will stay the course on these or will he change his tune after the election.


I doubt he'll change his tune after the election. Why would he?

Cycloptichorn
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2012 10:05 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
I doubt he'll change his tune after the election. Why would he?

Cycloptichorn
If he truly is doing it just to get the votes then the answer should be rather obvious to you.

As stated sometime earlier, he as already referred to the help towards the young immigrants as 'stop gap' and could easily come along next year and say there's nothing more that he can do, he voiced his support.
The same as with his sudden turn around on gay marriage, he can come along if pressed and indicated he stated a view; but, it's up to others to do something about it, or even worse, claim he has reconsidered and now is less sure about gay marriage.

Politics and elections get candidates to say things they normally would not.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2012 10:06 am
@Sturgis,
So the issue was he didn't act but now the issue is he did act?

Ain't politics wonderful. It's all about the person and nothing about whether it's good or not.
0 Replies
 
 

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