19
   

Guess what guys! Im gonna be a big sister! :)

 
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2012 11:29 am
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
I'm not sure it is wise to advise Gracie to try to make "deals" in this situation, and I think that even suggesting she use "threats" is extremely unwise, although it is clear you are not encouraging her to do that.

I'm not here to show off my wisdom. I am here to offer my honest opinion, and this is my honest opinion. Gracie is finding herself in a shitty situation. She had no control over her family getting into the situation. She has some control, but not much, over possible ways of dealing with the situation. This means that ---
  • Gracie is right to feel frustrated.

  • The damage to her family life is done. That she is right, and the question whose fault it is, will neither undo it nor prevent future damage.

  • to prevent future damage and have a reasonably agreeable family life until she goes to college, Gracie needs to figure out the things she wants and prioritize them. Then she needs to find specific things she can do to get the most important things she wants, given her limited amount of influence.
In constellations like this, there's a role for all kinds of strategies, including team-playing, striking mutually-beneficial deals, and ---yes!--- conflict. I'm happy to talk about the "how" of conflict, and about the fact that Gracie would be fighting from a position of weakness. But it would be a mistake to rule out conflict categorically. At least that's my honest opinion, wise or stupid, and that's what I'm here to offer.
ehBeth
 
  3  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2012 11:37 am
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
They're all going through a period of adjustment right now, and Gracie needs to understand that as well, she's not alone in having her life suddenly altered.


this really struck me. There are a lot of people having to make adjustments. The adults are expected to be 'adult' even if they don't necessarily feel that way.
chai2
 
  3  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2012 11:37 am
Yes, Gracies family (and I'm including Katie in that word, like it or not Gracie, she's part of your family now) is very aware of how unhappy Gracie is with all this.

Gracie, do you realize how much pressure you are putting on them, how weary and guilty you are making these 2 people feel?

A while back I wrote about that "bubble" people of a certain age put themselves in. I can't remember exactly when, but I know you either said you didn't understand what I meant, or didn't agree.

You are so in the middle of that bubble right now, and because you are in it, you can't see it.

This morning I reread the last few pages here and wondered "If Gracie were to take the 2 words "fault" and "fair" out of her posts, she wouldn't have anything else to say about this matter.

The thing is, you are saying the words that you understand this and that as far as your dad and Katie are concerned, but you really, really don't at all.

I've noticed many times that you don't talk about how your brother and sister feel (beyond one or two superficial comments). They are going through the same thing you know.

Take you you are feeling, and multiply that by about 100 to get what your dad and Katie are dealing with.

You don't want Katie to treat you like a mother figure, you don't want them living together, you don't want to move, you don't want this, you don't want that. Your father and Katie are stupid for getting pregnant, they don't think about you, you want things to stay the same, until you want them to change.

You've brought up the words bratty, selfish etc. and yes, that's exactly what you are right now.

There's no such thing as fault or fair Gracie. There's just life. You can live what is actually happening, or you can waste your time away thinking about whose fault things are, and how unfair it all is to Gracie.

Maybe Katie doesn't want to be a mother figure to you, and you're just seeing it that way, because it's what you want to see.
Maybe Katie's the one feeling like she has to walk around on egg shells so she doesn't upset you, because that means she has to listen again to how you don't want this that and the other.

You just came back from a month at your grandparents. Has it occured to you that maybe your dad and Katie enjoyed the break from you? While you were busy being bored and being annoyed with your grandparents, they were probably able to get lof of stuff done, and were able to relax a little.



0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2012 11:39 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

The adults are expected to be 'adult' even if they don't necessarily feel that way.


True dat.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2012 11:49 am
@GracieGirl,
GracieGirl wrote:
What do I do sozobe? I know that being bratty doesnt help but I cant pretend to be happy about it. I mean, I could 'honestly and respectfully express my opinions' instead of yelling like I always do but thats still not gonna change anything so whats the point?

I think you're wrong here. You do have a chance to change something. Your father and his girlfriend have literally fucked up. And they know it, whether they admit it in front of you or not. That gives you the high ground in any discussions of your family's future, and that's a valuable bargaining chip. So whatever you do, don't yield the high ground back to your father by throwing fits!

Gracie Girl wrote:
No ones happy about moving except for Dad.

So, have you talked among you three siblings about possible joint demands, and about presenting a united front to your father? If the three of you cooperate, your father is in a much weaker position to dictate things and play you siblings against each other. So if it's an option at all, get together with your siblings. Then demand, all the three of you, that there be a sitdown among all stakeholders to have a heart-to-heart. The first thing you want to stop is things like your father shipping you off to a foreign country and make dictatorial decisions about your life while you're abroad.

By all means, keep your tone civil; nobody will take you seriously if you don't. But in the end, this is your life. It's okay to stand up for it, and for yourself.
engineer
 
  5  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2012 11:57 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

I'm not here to show off my wisdom. I am here to offer my honest opinion, and this is my honest opinion. Gracie is finding herself in a shitty situation.

Is she really? A shitty situation might be losing your home because your parents got laid off or finding out you have cancer or having to work 40hrs a week to help with the family finances and failing your classes because you can't study. Is getting another committed adult in your home who loves your father a shitty situation? Is moving to a nice new home a shitty situation? I completely understand Gracie's arguments here - she's a teenager who's world is changing and we all know that teenagers aren't the best at handling sudden change but it's while it is easy to see the emotional turmoil that suddenly adding a couple of family members produces, it is hard to see why this is "shitty". If it's all about Gracie then this is a loss. If it is all about the family as a whole then there are a lot of positives here to go along with the negatives. The real question is can Gracie make the big picture, family call or is she still locked into the all about me adolescence mode. I think her long term happiness will be enhanced by working with the team instead of trying to extract concessions from it.
chai2
 
  6  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2012 12:03 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

Your father and his girlfriend have literally fucked up. And they know it, whether they admit it in front of you or not.


I can't believe you said that, and since you did, that you believe it.

How can you know if they messed up or not? Maybe for you it would be a disaster, it would for me, but we can't talk for them.
Who are you, me or anyone to say they, after the initial surprise, weren't absolutely delighted at the thought of a baby?

For that matter, how do we know that dad wasn't being stupid or f*cked up when he got a woman pregnant with Gracie?

Or the other kids? Maybe him having any children at all was the problem in the first place.



Children using bargaining chips with a parent in this way is what is messed up, not welcoming a family addition and being an adult and preparing for it. Gracie has shown, and knows on some level, she is being selfish. Bargain so that you can continue the selfish behavior?
Maybe if we were robots without emotions, but we talking about humans.

Gracie, don't bargain with your father or Katie over a matter this important, that will lead to no good.

Bottom line is, you're going to out of the house in a very few years, so suck it up, or accept, and enjoy your newer family.

Thomas
 
  0  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2012 12:10 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
Is she really? A shitty situation might be losing your home because your parents got laid off or finding out you have cancer or having to work 40hrs a week to help with the family finances and failing your classes because you can't study. Is getting another committed adult in your home who loves your father a shitty situation? Is moving to a nice new home a shitty situation?

That's for Gracie to judge, not us. If the situation is making her feel shitty and out of control, then yes, she's in a shitty situation.
roger
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2012 12:14 pm
@Thomas,
Of course the situation is out of her control. She can make the best of it, or make everyone miserable, including herself.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  4  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2012 12:21 pm
@Thomas,
You are saying perception is reality. I think if the situation is making her feel shitty and out of control then she feels shitty and out of control. If she is asking my advice, I would say from the outside it really doesn't look that bad. My advice is to step back and try to see the situation from a non-Gracie perspective. I certainly don't advise a coordinated, premeditated effort to extract concessions from the newly forming family, concessions that will almost certainly cost her father far more than the benefit she derives. Why approach your relationship with your parent as adversarial when it has never been that way before? You might want to do that with your boss but I can't see doing that with a father who you love and respect. This is his time of need, not Gracie's time to demand privilege.
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2012 12:30 pm
In the summer I was about to turn fourteen, I moved with my parents from a place I was very happy in Illinois, with many close friends, to live for the next three years along with them at my aunt's small house in California, when I had no friends with the exception of two cousins I didn't see much of, and a father often without a job. Oh, and found myself going to a new high school two long bus rides away, where as I said I knew no one.

I know about being wrenched away, but I understood the whys of it. Not that I'm all so perfect but that it was clear that was what was happening. I did a lot of reading that first summer.

I don't agree with Thomas on this one at all.


I do agree with Firefly - I think it was she who said - be active in helping the move and family blending work. Enjoy house hunting. Years of parental house hunting when they never could afford to buy was how I got interested in architecture.

Gracie, as others have said, you may be surprised what you'll like, and yes, not like, in the changes.

0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2012 12:31 pm
On the other hand, I do think that as a responsible father he should be trying to take as many needs into consideration as he can, and that if two needs are in conflict and Gracie gets the short end of the stick, it's appropriate for him to apologize and explain why.

That's what I'd do if Gracie were my kid.

So in this situation, I get why he wants a larger house -- there are a lot more people joining the household. I can see possibilities for why he'd want to live somewhere else -- housing costs being high on that list. (They may live someplace expensive and to get a larger house, he'd want to live someplace cheaper.)

I don't know if that's been discussed, but I don't think that Gracie should be completely cut out of the decision-making. Even my 3.5-year-old had some input when we moved. Gracie's not the ultimate arbiter, no, but that doesn't mean she can't or shouldn't have a voice.

Is there a way for them to both find a larger house and stay in the same district? It might be possible for compromises to be made all around, ending up with the best possible situation for all.

Of course, the more respectful and realistic Gracie is, the better for all (including Gracie).
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2012 12:40 pm
@Thomas,
I don't think we're really in disagreement.

Not only can conflict not be ruled out, it inevitably occurs from time to time in families--particularly between teens and parents.

I'm just not sure that Gracie should come out of the gate fighting. She's got to sit back a little to see what unfolds, and she's got to give Katie a chance to also settle in. The changes in that household have occurred fairly fast, and a new baby will change even more. They are all in unfamiliar territory, as a new blended family, and just absorbing the changes, and adjusting to them, makes more sense than a competitive attitude, and a lot more sense than a combative attitude, for Gracie right now.
Quote:
The damage to her family life is done

I'm not sure her family has been damaged. It's been altered, it's been expanded, but that doesn't mean it's been damaged. Once the initial disruption wears off, Gracie might well find her family life enhanced and enriched.

Having an adult female in the house, as her father's partner, is something, I gather, that Gracie really hasn't experienced before, or not since her mother left. That alone can take some getting used to, and some normal feelings of rivalry might be inevitable, even though Gracie, very fortunately, likes Katie.
And some of Gracie's anger toward Katie might already reflect that. If they both focus on the goal of wanting to have a good relationship, they'll be better able to weather the understandable anxieties and resentments that may surface during this initial phase of adjustment. It takes time to adapt to change and having to accommodate new people in our lives. Gracie needs to give herself, and Katie, that time.

I really hope that Katie becomes a positive influence in Gracie's life, and helps to provide something new and meaningful for her. But I wouldn't expect that to happen overnight, and Gracie has to get used to the disruption and change first--and, as I said in a previous post, I think she should talk about what she is feeling and experiencing with both her father and Katie, I think open sharing will be more productive than acting bratty to let them know she's upset. She's got to allow them to be helpful to her, if they can do that.

I think mainly Gracie needs to give herself time to deal with the changes, and just take things one step at a time.






0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2012 12:41 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
Why approach your relationship with your parent as adversarial when it has never been that way before?[ You might want to do that with your boss but I can't see doing that with a father who you love and respect.

Because, if Gracie described the relevant events correctly, this particular father is acting too much like a boss to her and too little like a father. And while I'm sure she still loves him, her respect for him must have suffered when he made exactly the same immature mistake he's been trying to protect her against. (Remember the escalation about her boyfriend?) The father and his girlfriend, not Gracie and her boyfriend, accidentally got themselves knocked by having unprotected sex prematurely.

engineer wrote:
This is his time of need, not Gracie's time to demand privilege.

He created the need by his own choices. When you kill your parents, you don't get to beg the jury for mercy because you're an orphan. Likewise, when you create a time of need for your family, you can't just command the family to fall in line because it's in a time of need. His choices are messing with her life and that of her siblings. Standing up for herself is different from demanding privilege.
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2012 01:01 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

He created the need by his own choices. When you kill your parents, you don't get to beg the jury for mercy because you're an orphan.

I think you are focusing on this particular point as giving carte blanche to any selfish behavior on Gracie's part when the situation could have come about any number of different ways. Her father could have been offered a promotion that would cause the family to move, her father could have proposed marriage with the pregnancy to follow and all of this would have occurred just over a longer time, one of her siblings could be the one facing an unintended birth and her father could have volunteered to take in the young couple. If this was her older brother and his pregnant girlfriend moving in would you advocate her demanding concessions from her father who was already stepping up in a big way to support his family? Is this a lot different? Gracie is being asked to make what most of us non-teenagers see as reasonable sacrifices with some serious upside potential. Her father may have made an error but he and his girlfriend are also making all the big sacrifices here. Gracie's feelings are certainly understandable but demanding that she contribute nothing isn't going to help her or her family. Everything that is conceeded to her will cost the family more and cost her father ten fold in terms of stress, time and treasure. Is this really where she wants to be? I don't think so. You could argue that he has it coming but families absorb these things and come out stronger if they work together. Your suggested approach adds much more stress to an already stressful situation. Any "win" Gracie gets from confrontation would be pyrrhic at best.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  4  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2012 01:03 pm
@Thomas,
Quote:
He and his girlfriend, not her and her boyfriend, got themselves knocked up by accident by having unprotected sex prematurely.

How do you know that? What's "prematurely" in your view?

Who are you to judge these two adults? Why aren't they entitled to start a new family--together?

Gracie's father was not married to her mother. He may, or may not, wish to be married now. That's between him and his girlfriend.
Quote:
this particular father is acting too much like a boss to her and too little like a father

The father of a 14 year old has to be "the boss"--and Gracie's father does not sound like an inconsiderate or unreasonable parent based on the things she's said about him--he's not a tyrant, but he is the head of the family, and his falling in love, and wanting to live with his partner, is not exactly an unreasonable thing for him to do. Yes, that choice might disrupt Gracie's life in the short term, but just how self-sacrificing do you think this man should be? He's been a single dad for almost 14 years. Isn't he entitled to have a life too?

You sound unreasonably angry at Gracie's dad. I think this is more your issue than hers.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2012 02:07 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
You sound unreasonably angry at Gracie's dad. I think this is more your issue than hers.

Think away to your heart's content, but I'm not angry with Gracie's father at all. I just disagree with the rest of you that he is entitled to the rest of the family falling in line behind him.

That being said, I probably should stop arguing with the rest of you, and concentrate on speaking with Gracie. Past threads suggest that our current path will soon descend into escalating accusations of how irresponsible I am and how reactionary y'all are. This serves nobody. I want to nip this dynamic in the bud this time, or at least as close to the bud as possible.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2012 02:51 pm
OK - as I am in the process of moving with a 13 year old; now granted we don't have the additional stress of a new baby and re-configured family; but I do understand the reaction of how a young teen acts from being "uprooted".

My 13 year old, although happy to move into a new house from a condo, did not want to leave her school. Where we are moving, we could have her continue going to her private school as it is close enough. We prefer though that she go to the town's public school.

We have legit reasons that we went over with her. She had her reasons why she wanted to stay. Sometimes, as strong as a teen's reasons/feelings are, the parent has to step and decide what is best. Hers was more feelings based and not practical. We respected her thoughts and heard her out, but also expressed ours.

Although at this point she would probably still prefer to go to her previous schools she understands the why.

Now granted Gracie's situation is more complicated. But Gracie, I hope your dad has sat down and talked with you on this. Explained his reasons - has he? If not, I'd ask him if you two could sit down and talk. Have you told him your concerns? In a mature way? It may not change anything, and you may still not like it, but hopefully you are mature enough to at least understand and respect where he is coming from. And I'd hope he would understand and respect your concerns.

Have you discussed how you can stay in touch with your friends? Future visits arranaged and such? Both my daughters (13 and 9) are worried about not seeing their "old" friends. It is helpful if you can at least find ways to stay in touch and meet up. Just a few hours away - could you visit on school vacations/long weekends and sleep over a friend's house. We do this now with my 13 year old where her best friend moved a couple of hours away.

Just remember - as much as it may appear he is happy about this - he is under alot of stress with it and is most likely hiding this stress from you kids to make things easier for you all.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2012 03:32 pm
I'd like to her from Gracie if her dad has had a sit down with her/the family to talk about all this.

From what she has said in the past about her father, I honestly believe he has done so, and not acted in a complete vacuum.

Gracie, if I sounded angry before, I wasn't. It's just that this is not going to go away, this isn't some horrible terrible thing.

In your title it says "I'm going to be a big sister"

Turn the words around a few different ways.....The baby is going to be everyone's little sister/baby. Your dad is going to be a few father, Katie is going to be a new mother.

When you go off on your own in a very few years, aren't you going to be the new person then too? What's the difference if it happens twice, or now?

Is it because in a few years it's going to be what You want?

FOUND SOUL
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2012 03:52 pm
@chai2,
Gracie,

I just want to add one thing sweet.

Can you do me a favour ? Be nice to Katie for the time being, I mean she's how many months pregnant now? It's an extremely stressful time for her at the moment. Complications can take place as well.

Sometimes, in life we also have to take ourselves out of the aquation when something more pressing is in place, think of other people for instance, instead of ourselves.. It's only a few weeks and who knows, you may get to know her just a little more, share that time with her you know? Leading up to her having your sister/brother, this should also be an exciting time for all...
0 Replies
 
 

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