Guess what guys! Im gonna be a big sister! :)

Gracie,

Earlier on in this thread, you mentioned that your Dad, works and works and when home is now busy, no time for you and that you really love your Dad.

You also said, Katie wanted you to be a part of this and help choose the babys name.

Do you still feel that your Dad is too busy for you?

If so have you expressed that you miss him in your life as it was, because if he knew that, I am sure he'd balance things a little bit differently... And, obviously Katie is a lovely lady wanting you to be a part of everything... You know things take time sweet... But, I am wondering if this is what concerns you the most. Your Dad not being there as much as he was.

That's a great point. It makes the change a bit easier if you are included. However, as we had been going through this - there were many changes in moving location, timing, etc. Many beyond our (the parents' control). So it was a huge rollercoaster for the kids including them on the potential location, house, etc. We found (after getting them excited about one location and having it fall through), it was actually better for the kids to show them the house and talk with them about the location after it was narrowed down and more likely.

But included them in on it - for example having them see and visit the house/neighborhood/school - but not drag them to every house viewing - helped. When they show the house we liked the best, they got really excited - yes they were still worried and concerned about the new school and friends (still are) - but they did get to see the schools; hear about kids in the neighborhood that are their age; I've even managed to set up playdates with a friend's family member that happens to live nearby - all these sorts of things helps the kids a bit.

It is huge for a teen to move. But it isn't always as bad as it seems. My daughters although hestitant are now flipped to the other side where it is a sort of nervous excitement.

Maybe it will be helpful if I post after we move how things unfold?

I wonder in part if Thomas is not the best person for such advice - meaning he doesn't have kids and is not a kid. He is giving advice from an adult perspective to another adult. Not either from a kid's thought or parent with kids. Kinda tough to give advice on something you have not directly experienced and it has been a bit of time since he was a teen.

I'm glad your daughters are starting too look forward to this, Linkat. Really hope the whole thing goes well for you guys.

Your post reminds me that one other thing about this situation is that a lot of people have mentioned that moves were necessary because of a job, etc. There just wasn't a lot of choice involved.

There is a lot more leeway in this situation. They need a bigger house because there are going to be more people -- but beyond that, it seems to be mostly about where the grown-ups would like to live.

I really hope you can all sit and talk - without getting angry. It is tough all around and I feel for you - and I feel for your dad as well.

There definately is alot of feelings getting hurt here on both sides - keeping the anger out (as much as you can) and listening to each other should help. I do hope you can get an understanding from all sides - I don't expect an agreement, but I would hope for an understanding.

Good point - Gracie in talking with your dad, could you discuss this? Maybe there is some leeway on where you could move...but ask him - or ask him why he has chosen a certain location. Maybe there is some compromise there - I think it helped my kids that we moved to a location that is very near many of their friends. We are even able to now attend a church where many of their friends go to - all those things although not exactly what they wanted - they would like to stay at their current school, but we did have some compromise and were able to discuss the pros and cons of going to a new school.

That's the way to do it, IMO.

I think this is another area where we have not been sufficiently reading between the lines. The father is proposing moving the family two hours away. This is not just a move to a bigger house; it sounds like a significant career move and is likely not being done on a whim. Of course we have no idea what is actually happening other than Gracie's limited view of it but you don't move to a completely new city because you need more space. It seems to me there is a large plan here involving job changes for father and girlfriend that Gracie is unaware of. The baby issue has been in the works for months now but the moving issue is new. Gracie is missing part of the story and should definitely ask, but it looks like a lot more than just where the adults want to live.

likely because we are getting only one person's perspective

~~

I suspect that there is much more going on that the adults are dealing with right now than where they'd "like" to live.

Yes, hence the "seems to." More info could definitely push this in several different ways.

There hasn't been a statement yet along the lines of "my dad got a new job so we need to move," though.



No, you don't. But if you need to move to a bigger house anyway, and have always wanted to live closer to the Bay Area (just for example), needing to move might be the impetus to move to a preferred area. We don't currently know what their reasoning is.

and Gracie may never know all the things that are leading her father to think about moving.

As Linkat pointed out, some things were not shared with her children.

Each family dynamic is different, so each parent has to make the best decisions they can about what to say to and do for their family.

As much as I don't think we get 100% of what's going on from Gracie (and don't expect to), I don't think Gracie will get 100% of what is going on from her father (and shouldn't expect to).


Hopefully, Gracie will get the answers she needs -and that her father is able and willing to provide - that will allow her to trust him in making the best choices he can for the entire family of 8. No one will end up with everything they want from the changes, but hopefully there will be enough to make everyone at least be comfortable with the upcoming changes.


I was thinking it's got to be particularly hard for Katie's small children. They've just moved, and are going to have to move again.

I agree with all of that, actually.

My point here has not been "X is definitely true," but "Y is not necessarily true."

Some assumptions have been made that haven't really been borne out by the information we've received thus far, with advice based on those assumptions.

We don't know that. Gracie's father's employment may well figure into a location. Housing costs may figure in. Those things go beyond just where they would "like" to live--they are significant considerations.

I think there is too much criticism, or implied criticism, of Gracie's father going on in this thread. I'm not pointing at you, soz, I'm making a general statement. He's been criticized for getting his girlfriend pregnant, for moving her into his home too quickly, for not including Gracie in decisions, for thinking too much about himself and not considering his children enough, etc. Whoa! We don't actually know much about the background of this situation, or how her father is handing matters, all we know is Gracie is upset about the changes brought about by the presence of a significant person, and new partner, in her father's life. And she's made that very clear.

It's easy for Gracie to blame Katie. But it's really the importance of Katie in her father's life that's bothering Gracie. Katie is in that house because Gracie's dad wants her to be there, and he wants to go on living with her, and he wants to raise the child they are expecting together, and that is going to necessitate changes for all of them--two adults and 5 children. Gracie wanted Katie to remain "a girlfriend" and remain in her own home, and not become an actual part of her family, and she really doesn't like it one bit that Katie's obviously moved beyond "girlfriend" status in her father's life and affections. She's not even acknowledging that power shift, from girlfriend to partner, let alone accepting it. And I'm not sure there is much her father could do to make it easier for Gracie to accept this new partner in his life--adjusting to such changes, and the presence of this "intruder" in her life, will just take Gracie time. It is unfamiliar, it is disruptive, and it will take Gracie time to accept and adjust to her father's commitment to Katie, regardless of how skillfully or sensitively her father tries to handle it.

I don't think it is at all helpful to Gracie for us to second guess or criticize her father's behavior--she does enough of that on her own, and she tends to see situations from her own egocentric perspective, which gives us rather one-sided, and possibly biased, information. We have absolutely no influence over her father, so what's the point of anyone in this thread even mulling over what he should, or shouldn't, be doing? How is that helpful to Gracie? She doesn't want her father to do anything that will alter her life--and that includes committing himself to a new partner and making a life with her--and that's a demand of him Gracie really has no legitimate right to make. Her father's life does not, and should not, revolve totally around Gracie, and some of the implied criticism is suggesting it should. By suggesting her father should be handling things differently, we only reinforce her anger and that's not helpful to her either. Her father, from everything Gracie has said about him, is a very responsible and caring parent. I think we have to assume he is handling things the best way he knows how to handle them at the moment.

I hope that Gracie and her siblings had a productive talk with her father yesterday. I hope some of the uncertainty and confusion about any possible re-location was cleared up. But any move isn't likely to happen overnight, and I think we ought to focus a little more on helping Gracie to deal with what's going on right now. And, in that regard, I was a little taken aback when Gracie said this about Katie

She's nothing to Gracie? That's a pretty dismissive statement, and it's also untrue. Maybe, since Katie's not going anywhere, we should help Gracie try to better figure out her relationship to her father's partner, and what role she would like this woman to play in her life.

As adults we know we're not always thrilled with the in-laws that enter our families, and impact our lives, through marriage. We, hopefully, accept these people because we love our relatives and we don't want to damage our relationships with those people. We don't consider these people as "nothing to me". Gracie can't shove Katie out of the picture and have things the way they were before--she has to come to terms with present reality. And, before she even deals with a move, or a possible new school, she's got to accept this woman as a part of her life now. And if Gracie continues to see Katie essentially as an unwanted intruder who moved in and messed up her life, it's going to be hard for her to let go of the anger and move toward acceptance. And when you can't change something, acceptance is the best option, and acceptance is not the same as "just suck it up"--acceptance means you stop trying to fight something you can't change and you stop feeling so pissed about it--you re-direct your energy toward making peace with the situation and trying to make the best of it. Sometimes we need to shift our attitude first and that's what decreases our anger--how we think about things controls our emotional reactions. And the one thing that Gracie is fully in control of is her attitude about the present situation and Katie, and her current attitude is helping to fuel her anger.

Let's help Gracie take this one step at a time.

Guilty. And that's been true from the stick-to-your-guns end to the do-as-you're-told end of the advice spectrum.

She's nothing to Gracie? That's a pretty dismissive statement, and it's also untrue.

Of course Katie isn’t “nothing to Gracie”. Gracie has also said many nice things about Katie. Gracie is acting like a typical teen. She’s angry and I think many of us (although we don’t agree) we understand. She is in a tough situation. She is acting out – although not appropriately, but like you almost would expect a teen to act under these circumstances. This is one reason I stayed away from this, the other reason is I figure I’d give advice where Gracie could actually do something. Talking with her dad about the move and where she can be a part of it.
And if we all tell Gracie stop your pissing and moaning and deal with it – she ain’t gonna listen to us. She needs some sympathetic ears and a safe place to vent a little. Also, I can see there are times that Gracie does “like” Katie. Gracie has said some nice things about her.

I only hope Gracie hasn't locked herself into a position that won't let here change her viewpoint.

Maybe I am an optimist, but I get the impression she will pull out of this and become more positive. She seems too level headed to not. It seems to me she is just acting like a teen. And with difficult stuff - even a good level headed teen will be a brat. By nature teens are self-focused - as you read through both the negative and positive things she has written you can almost see the internal struggle she has going on.

One minute she acknowledges she is being a brat and the next she is blaming dad and then Katie and then next she says something nice about Katie.

I just hope that dad is talking as much as he can and filling her in as much as possible. I do think overall she is having a normal teen reaction.

I agree with you.

And I think this is a particularly difficult situation for Gracie because she hasn't grown up in a two parent home--I gather she's not used to her father having a partner, who's living under the same roof with them, at all . I think Gracie's mother left the home when Gracie was very young--and I have the impression it's just been dad and the children since then. So, for dad to now have a partner, to whom he also feels committed, and with whom he's going to have a child and a long-term future, is a difficult change for Gracie. I don't think Gracie actively dislikes Katie as a person, I think she dislikes the place Katie now occupies in her father's life, and she's still struggling with how Katie fits into her life, beyond being a merely disruptive presence and influence.

I don't think we should tell her that--I think we should help her be able to do that. Helping her to shift or broaden her perspective a little, or helping her to shift her attitude a little, by giving her more than one way of looking at this situation--beyond simply seeing it as, "my life's all messed up and it's all Katie's fault"--is one way of doing that, and I think that's been going on in this thread with the things people have said to her. And Gracie has been doing some listening.

At some point Gracie really has to accept the situation that her father is in a committed long-term relationship with a partner, . She's trying, but so far she seems to only be tolerating Katie's presence in the home--the harder part is really accepting Katie as a significant part of her father's life and, therefore, of her life as well. That's going to take time.

I agree. And in an earlier post I suggested to Gracie that she vent in this thread rather than taking out her angry feelings on either her father or Katie right now. We do understand what she's feeling. And she's entitled to feel upset that her familiar life's been disrupted--it's a stressful situation for her.

I just don't think it's helpful to Gracie if the "sympathetic ears" join her in blaming her father and/or Katie or in criticizing how they are handling matters.

I think so too. She just needs time to sort out and process a lot of different emotions.

Thanks, JTT.

And thanks for the language advice, it keeps me on my toes. That was a slip on my part. I can't believe I wrote that--I cringed when I re-read it.