Obunga: Palestine must be based on 67 borders........

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110519/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_mideast_palestinians_1

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WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama is endorsing the Palestinians' demand for their future state to be based on the borders that existed before the 1967 Middle East war, in a move that will likely infuriate Israel. Israel says the borders of a Palestinian state have to be determined through negotiations....

The really big mystery of Judaism: The question of why any Jew who was not certifiably insane, would ever vote for a demoKKKrat for anything.

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@gungasnake,

It's simple, Gunga, but I'm not at all surprised that it's beyond you. There are some Jews who are honest and appreciate fairness, just as there are non-Jews who are honest and appreciate fairness.

Then there are folks like you.

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@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110519/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_mideast_palestinians_1

Quote:

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama is endorsing the Palestinians' demand for their future state to be based on the borders that existed before the 1967 Middle East war, in a move that will likely infuriate Israel. Israel says the borders of a Palestinian state have to be determined through negotiations....

The really big mystery of Judaism: The question of why any Jew who was not certifiably insane, would ever vote for a demoKKKrat for anything.

The Orthodox tend to vote Republican. However, the greater number of either secular, Conservative, or Reform Jews tend towards the Democratic Party. I think it has something to do with the (false, in my opinion) belief that "liberalism" equates to an eventual eradication of anti-Semitism. That I believe is just a false conclusion, since again I believe, the popular culture of much of the Gentile population has anti-Semitism imbedded in the popular culture in an intractable way ("can't shake this intractable cold"). The reason? I believe, two thousand years of brainwashing in Europe has left an indelible impression that Jews/Judaism is just an interloper in the Gentile culture.

Notice that the U.S.A. still has as its cultural template, I believe, as a form of Protestantism that looks upon the early colonists (as they themselves did) as Christian Israelites (metaphorically) in that they too were fleeing persecution in Europe, like the Israelites were fleeing persecution in ancient Egypt. Anyway, while I know many lovely people that follow the Catholic faith, I believe Catholicism, as a religion, has no use for Judaism the way Evangelicals feel that Israel needs to exist for bible prophecy to come to its fruition. And, when Jews "marry out" it tends to be with people that came from a Catholic background. Interesting incongruity, I believe.

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@JTT,

What's important about this is it's a dealmaker. He's saying sort out the borders first, we'll talk about Jerusalem and refugees later. This has probably got more to do with the Palestinians getting the UN General Assembly to recognise the State of Palestine.

Palestine's always been the elephant in the room. If you don't sort that out you'll never get rid of the threat of Islamist terrorism further afield.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

What's important about this is it's a dealmaker. He's saying sort out the borders first, we'll talk about Jerusalem and refugees later. This has probably got more to do with the Palestinians getting the UN General Assembly to recognise the State of Palestine.

Palestine's always been the elephant in the room. If you don't sort that out you'll never get rid of the threat of Islamist terrorism further afield.

I do not believe the goal of Islamist terrorism is l'il ole Israel. In my readings, the goal is a world-wide Caliphate. Nothing less. Oh, yes, and they want all the lands back that they once occupied. Israel is just small potatoes.

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@Foofie,

Quote:

In my readings, the goal is a world-wide Caliphate. Nothing less. Oh, yes, and they want all the lands back that they once occupied. Israel is just small potatoes.

I have no doubt that that is the wish of some, Foofie, but how is it any different from US Manifest Destiny which was absurd from the get go, and yet it has spread like a cancer to countries all over the globe.

Outside of US territory, of course, it morphed into an extremely virulent form where the only thing the indigenous population got was pain and death, while the cancer sucked their wealth from them.

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@JTT,

JTT wrote:

Quote:
In my readings, the goal is a world-wide Caliphate. Nothing less. Oh, yes, and they want all the lands back that they once occupied. Israel is just small potatoes.

I have no doubt that that is the wish of some, Foofie, but how is it any different from US Manifest Destiny which was absurd from the get go, and yet it has spread like a cancer to countries all over the globe.

Outside of US territory, of course, it morphed into an extremely virulent form where the only thing the indigenous population got was pain and death, while the cancer sucked their wealth from them.

Quite different, since the western world has Churches, synagogues and many, many mosques. Are there any Churches or synagogues in Muslim countries? Nyet!

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@Foofie,

Islamist terrorism is just a very small fraction of the Moslem world in general. However, most of the world believes in a free Palestine. As long as America continues to let Israel run roughshod over the Palestianians, the Osama Bin Ladens of this world have got their 'proof' of the 'Great Satan's' crusade.

Really though, Islamist terrorists are the small potatoes, their actual capability and influence has been grossly overexagerrated. The Arab Spring has shown protesters motivated by Nationalism and Democracy. Some pipe dream of a pan arab caliphate has had nothing to do with it. Israel has always claimed to be the only democracy in the area, (conveniently forgetting about Lebanon and the Palestinians). They can't do that any more, this makes America's position a lot trickier.

America shouldn't vote to recognise a sovereign Palestinian state within 1967 borders in order to diminish the threat of Islamist terrorists. America should do it because it's the right thing to do.

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@Foofie,

Foofie said

Are there any Churches or synagogues in Muslim countries? Nyet!

Are you being serious. Iran's got its own Jewish MP recognised by the Iranian constitution. There's churches and synagogues all over the middle east.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Foofie said

Are there any Churches or synagogues in Muslim countries? Nyet!

Are you being serious. Iran's got its own Jewish MP recognised by the Iranian constitution. There's churches and synagogues all over the middle east.

I do not subscribe to your last sentence. Also, since you spell in a British fashion, please do not reply to my posts. We are worlds apart, not just a "pond."

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@Foofie,

I didn't realise I was dealing with a racist.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Islamist terrorism is just a very small fraction of the Moslem world in general. However, most of the world believes in a free Palestine. As long as America continues to let Israel run roughshod over the Palestianians, the Osama Bin Ladens of this world have got their 'proof' of the 'Great Satan's' crusade.

Really though, Islamist terrorists are the small potatoes, their actual capability and influence has been grossly overexagerrated. The Arab Spring has shown protesters motivated by Nationalism and Democracy. Some pipe dream of a pan arab caliphate has had nothing to do with it. Israel has always claimed to be the only democracy in the area, (conveniently forgetting about Lebanon and the Palestinians). They can't do that any more, this makes America's position a lot trickier.

America shouldn't vote to recognise a sovereign Palestinian state within 1967 borders in order to diminish the threat of Islamist terrorists. America should do it because it's the right thing to do.

I do enjoy reading the words of an hypocritical Brit pontificating about how the United States screwed up the Middle east.

Poor Woodrow Wilson. he didn't know about the Sykes-Picot Agreement or recognize the significance of the Anglo French opening campaign in WWI - at Gallipoli, when he allowed us to be lured, against our natural intertests, in the folly of WWI. We put a million men on the Western Front and the British withdrew 700,000 to put them in the Middle East to expand their ill-gotten empire. The British went on to complete the destruction of the Ottoman Empire; solemnly promise Palestine to both the Arab Hashemites and the European Zionists; draw the borders of Jordan, Iraq and Kuwait and Bahrain in an attempt to control the newly found petroleum; and get kicked out of Iraq in an insurgency. They had earlier stolen the Suez canal in a stock swindle, and later took over Egypt in the name of "protecting their investment" (and the route to India)) and as late as 1956 attempted to invade that country to get it back. If that isn't permanently ******* up the region, I don't know what is.

Britain has also bequeathed us the dysfunctional state of Pakistan and the continuing enmity between it and India. Our next great error in the region was in allowing ourselves to again be duped by the British in 1953 in carrying out their plan to overthrow a democratically elected Iranian PM, Muhhammet Mousadec so they could continue screwing the Persians out of their oil (a 90-10 profit split) ostensably so the British labor government could pay welfare benefits to British citizens. I have often suspected Eisenhower regretted that decision and that was part of his motivatioin in 1956.

To be fair, the British didn't screw up the whole Islamic world - the Brtitish and the Russians did the rest.

All that said, I agree with President Obama. Israel has hurt itself badly since 1967, both politically and morally, in attempting to take the land of the West Bank without any consideration of the political rights of its inhabitants, whom they have systematically attempt to confine to an ever smaller part of the region. It has been a very shortsighted policy that has deepened the enmity between them and their neighhbors and stopped any gradual accomodation or mutually beneficial development - a sure formula for endless struggle and war. It is time for Israel to act responsibly.

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@Foofie,

Quote:

I do not subscribe to your last sentence. Also, since you spell in a British fashion, ... . We are worlds apart, not just a "pond."

Gee, you wouldn't be American, would you, Foofie?

Quote:

please do not reply to my posts

Foofie will forget that he ever said that in a couple of hours.

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

Islamist terrorism is just a very small fraction of the Moslem world in general. However, most of the world believes in a free Palestine. As long as America continues to let Israel run roughshod over the Palestianians....

You are seriously deluded. Israel isn't running over anybody, they're trying to keep their own tiny little country together in the face of a slammite onslaught which is now being aided and abetted by Bork Obunga and his demoKKKrat/NWO hordes.

This is the slammite world:

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQwD4uFKXLS2vfMkW3rLP5MWqTleaL2Hqh7cdu0Xul6zfQUYi69VA

i.e. the gigantic swath of territory from the wall of China to the Western coast of Africa and 40 or so degrees of latitude up and down, and you can't even see Israel at that scale. Israel is the tiny little sliver of land on the Eastern edge of the Med which the unholy slammite crybaby act has been about for the last 65 years.

You're telling ME they can't find some other place to PUT those goofy fuckers (palisavages) somewhere in the slammite world?

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@izzythepush,

Why are Christians and Jews (in fact, only Muslims are allowed) banned from Mecca ? Why do you think we will contaminate their holy places ? All a bit sexual and virginal isnt it ?

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@JTT,

Quote:

Gee, you wouldn't be American, would you, Foofie?

Are you suggesting she is a war criminal or just that all people in the Americas are racist ?

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@izzythepush,

Perhaps you are unaware of the discrimination and violence towards Christians and Jews in the Middle East ?

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Israel is brutally occupying Palestine. Israel is no different from apartheid South Africa. The Balfour declaration was wrong, and I don't see how supporting a free Palestine makes my a hypocrite. Mecca is in Saudi Arabia, which is where most of the bombers of 9/11 came from. Since then George Bush's policy was to suck as much Saudi cock as possible.

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@georgeob1,

georgebob said

I do enjoy reading the words of an hypocritical Brit pontificating about how the United States screwed up the Middle east.

Well there's nothing hypocritical about you, having stolen the land of your own indiginous population, and carried out a programme of extermination, you're now helping the Israeli colonists do the same to theirs.

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

Well there's nothing hypocritical about you, having stolen the land of your own indiginous population, and carried out a programme of extermination, you're now helping the Israeli colonists do the same to theirs.

You are massively full of ****. When Mark Twain visited the holy lands in the late 1800s there was nobody there, Jerusalem was basically a ghost town. "palestinians" are basically just other arabs who moved in for jobs AFTER the Zionists made something out of the place. There are no more than a tiny handful of them with any history of living near Israel going back any more than a hundred years. THOSE could easily be settled in land in the slammite world which Jews abandoned when moving to Israel.

As to Amerinds, you have to ask yourself where they'd be if Europeans hadn't gotten to the New World at all. The basic answer is that Chinese, Japanese, and Mongols would have gotten here and the Amerinds would have been altogether exterminated. Nature hates vacuums.

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Obunga: Palestine must be based on 67 borders........

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