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Obunga: Palestine must be based on 67 borders........

 
 
eurocelticyankee
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2011 09:10 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
do you have any advice on how ?

Maybe the dickhead should ask you.

Quote:
Your side seem particularly short on facts and heavy on insults and commands .

talk about the pot calling the kettle black Rolling Eyes

I believe we talked before, i think I might have recommended a movie to you,
"in the electric mist" you're the guy has 5 kids and you seemed like a decent
guy, what's happened to you, that you go along with moron's like oralboy &
gunka? and for a father some of the stuff you're coming out with is disturbing.
izzythepush
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2011 09:13 am
@Ionus,
Ionus said

Quote:
I believe our government needs to stand up to America in the same way your government needs to stand up to Israel.

So you dont believe in the democratic process....you want to be installed as a dictator and tell governments what to do rather then the people tell them....hasnt that been tried before ? Was it the Nazis ?

You are clearly delusional, how is wishing that my government would do things differently proof that I do not believe in the democratic process? The biggest abuse of the democratic process was when Blair supinely followed Bush into an illegal war in Iraq. This was a betrayal of every one who voted Labour, although I'm proud to say my own MP, a cabinet minister, resigned in protest. The vast majority of people in the UK were against the war, there was an anti-war protest in London that had over a million marchers, the biggest protest ever recorded in the UK. Blair's decision to go to war was not part of the democratic process, it was an example of 'elected dictatorship.'

It's impossible to reason with you so I'm not going to bother trying anymore, it's like having a conversation with a backward child.
Ionus
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2011 09:16 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
I thought you were a 'patriotic American,'
Wrong hemisphere....out by two hemispheres in fact .

Quote:
At least you've finally shown your true colours.
What would they be ?

Quote:
You're just as much a bigot and a racist as oralboy and gunga.
Apart from you, who else puts great importance in your opinion unsupported by facts ?

How is your anger management going ?

Quote:
He is a racist pure and simple
no point in trying to engage such vermin
the sort of hate filled rubbish
you've not been given your complete allocation in the trouser department
there is something seriously wrong with you
I feel sorry for anyone who lives in your neighbourhood,
you are just the type to load up automatic weapons in your vehicle and go out on a killing spree
Most people stopped having this childlike view of the world when they were six
You are a seriously disturbed individual


You are just another hypocrite with a bad temper loud mouthing your opinion as though it mattered to anyone but you . All because we didnt say, "My God...you must be right.." and then hang onto your every word . Get over yourself .
izzythepush
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2011 09:18 am
@eurocelticyankee,
Changing the subject, I'm really pleased about the way our two countries' relations have improved dramatically over the past few years. Like most ordinary Englishmen I'm quite happy with the idea of a United Ireland, but I wouldn't want to wish Ian Paisley on anyone. Also could you do something about Jedward.

I think we're both united in our loathing of Thierry Henri. I hate Arsenal.
Ionus
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2011 09:33 am
@eurocelticyankee,
Quote:
that you go along with moron's like oralboy & gunka?
I go along with my own opinion . I support Israel and don't believe the Palestinians or Arabs have behaved in anything approaching a reasonable manner . Jews must have a country .

The Palestinians have deliberately kept their people in camps to increase political leverage . They have asked women to breed like rabbits so the political leverage will grow . They have tried, and continue to exterminate Israel . I don't have a problem with the Palestinians being dispersed into Jordan and other Arab countries . The Palestinians never had a country before, why should they have one now simply because terrorist leaders want to govern .
Ionus
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2011 09:37 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
I believe our government needs to stand up to America in the same way your government needs to stand up to Israel.

Quote:
how is wishing that my government would do things differently proof that I do not believe in the democratic process
So the belief is now a wish .
In the democratic process the governement will be voted out if they get it wrong . Have we had any elections since this started ? Your beliefs are just that...clearly they are not the concern of the majority or it would have happened by now . Therefore you are just whinging that people will not do what you want.....that is undemocratic....understand now ?

Quote:
it's like having a conversation with a backward child.
How's your anger management going ?
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2011 09:38 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
The Palestinians have deliberately kept their people in camps in increase political leverage . They have asked women to breed like rabbits so the politicval leverage will grow .


You left out the part about us getting to pay for the palisavage rabbit-breeding while we can only afford 1.8 children per family.....
0 Replies
 
eurocelticyankee
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2011 09:38 am
@izzythepush,
I lived and worked in England for over 8 good years, never any problem,
as usual ordinary working people from all countries and cultures get on fine.
We all just want a fair & decent life for ourselves & our families. But as we
all know there's always the minority of die-hard crackpots who **** it up
for the rest of us, "the load minority".
Yeah I'm hoping the peace process in the North keeps going and maybe
some day leads to a United Ireland, but It has a long way to go yet and even
now there are a handful of psycho's on both sides who would love nothing
more than to see the killing and carnage start again.
BUT there's hope for us all, if the Rev Ian can change and mellow, well
anybody can.
I never bought in to the vilification of Henry, pot calling the kettle black,
the game is full of cheaters and divers, in fact I find it hard to watch a game
these days with all the cheating and bad referee decisions. Sportsmanship
my arse. Till that idiot Blatter is gone and FIFA is reformed the game is
in trouble. I prefer watching my son playing a local game, real soccer.
Jedward, you can keep em, we bred em, but you created them. Laughing
eurocelticyankee
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2011 09:43 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
I go along with my own opinion

You're entitled to that of course.



Gunga said,
Quote:
palisavage rabbit-breeding

But how can you go along with garbage like this??
Ionus
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2011 09:46 am
@eurocelticyankee,
Quote:
Quote:
palisavage rabbit-breeding
But how can you go along with garbage like this??
I dont . But I remember a group of terrorists trying to escape the Israeli military and the children they had as hostages were slowing them down . They picked them up and swung them over their heads bashing their brains out on rocks . What did those children think as they waited for their turn ? The terrorists escaped . They might still be out there, protected by the PLO . How can you go along with that ?
georgeob1
 
  3  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2011 09:49 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

You're still finding it quite difficult to focus on the subject without taking a pop. It's quite interesting that you focus on me being British most of the time, but when you can't find examples of the British going along with your way of thinking, Bosnia for example, you then have a go at Europeans.
You shift your stance and focus in response to difficulties in supporting your accusations with admirable dexterity. What is "the subject" here ? I was responding to your specific accusations of misbehavior or, in the case of Bosnia, failure to act promptly, on the part of my country. You were merely reciting a very familiar litany of common European criticisms, based on the false presumption of superior moral standing (something that generally appears quite ludicrous to Americans, coming as it does forom the sources of most of the misery in the world in the last two centuries) . Making a distinction between Britain and the rest of the EU on political matters is increasingly difficult from the perspective on this side of the Atlantic.

izzythepush wrote:

What proof do you have of Europeans falsifying investigations into Gaza? Maybe it's easier to accept such things without actually looking at the evidence because it helps reenforce the opinions you already have.
You should spend some time studying readily available materials concerning the activities of the infamous UN Human Rights Commission and its Investigation led by the esteemed "Judge" Richard Goldstone of South Africa into incidents in the recent Gaza conflict. It was a superficial and highly one-sided hit job that was largely refuted by subsequent investigators. A brief and little noted acknowledgement of inadequacies in the investigation was later issued by the esteemed UN "Judge" in which he euphamistically acknowledged that (and I paraphrase) 'had he known more his report would have been a "very different" document. Hardly a sufficient acknowledgment of lies and perjury on the part of a self-styled "justice". However, all entirely in keeping with widely held European (and British) prejudices on the matter.

izzythepush wrote:

As for the UK government's willingness to follow America in the UN, I think that has more to do with the legacy of Suez than anything else. I agree with you though, I believe our government needs to stand up to America in the same way your government needs to stand up to Israel.
What the hell is "the legacy of Suez"? Did President Eisenhower do permanent damage to the British gene pool? I doubt it. Sounds very much like a euphamistic excuse to me. The real, and not very surprising, truth is that whatever affections Britain may have once had for my country were a temporary result of common efforts in WWII. Like most such things they fade in a generation or so, and we have drifted back into the more natural previous state in which friendly relations alternated with disagreement and conflict as in 1812 and the British support of the Confederacy during our Civil War.

You didn't respond at all to my reference to the recent British acceptance of a payoff from Ghadaffi of Libya for the release of the convicted Lockerbee bomber abd killer of many of my countrymen. Was that off topic topic too?
eurocelticyankee
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2011 09:52 am
@Ionus,
I don't, I already said both sides have committed atrocities
and there's blame on both sides.
The likes of oral & gunga are of the opinion it's all one sides
fault, i'm not, are you?
izzythepush
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2011 09:56 am
@eurocelticyankee,
You're spot on, I had the choice of paying to see Southampton or England on the telly. I chose to see Southampton because I can't think of anyone in the England squad who isn't an arsehole. What's going on with Neil Lennon shows we've got our own crackpots this side of the channel as well.

I think we're going to have to plead guilty to Jedward, but in my defence, I don't watch talent shows.
izzythepush
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2011 10:22 am
@georgeob1,
If you're going to go on about Lockerbie at least spell it right. It was nothing to do with payoffs, it was to do with the application of Scottish law. You show your own bigotry and bias when you use quotation marks to describe an eminent judge. Similarly your disdain for the UN puts you in opposition to Roosevelt and Churchill, and on the same side of the argument as Hitler.

As I said before, most people over here believe that Al Megrahi was an innocent man. It may have been a bit unfortunate that the justice minister who announced his release sounded just like Frankie Boyle. I don't usually watch Fox News, no I never watch Fox News, but I did then. It was brilliant watching all these far-right commentators spitting feathers because someone in the UK had decided to ignore America and apply the rule of law. I can't be the only one thinking that, because the SNP have been returned to power in Scotland with an overwhelming majority. This is the more impressive considering that the electoral system in Scotland is designed to stop any one party getting a majority.

As you claim to know agreat deal about history, I'm astonished to discover you do not understand the term 'legacy of Suez.' It is a very well established term, and I'm not going to bother explaining it to you. I honestly didn't think I'd have to start explaining basic terminology. You are not capable of viewing anything objectively, everything is skewed through some perverse America vs Europe narrative you've got running through your brain. When you look at your own country, you need to take off those rose tinted spectacles and take a peek with the harsh critical gaze with which you view the rest of the world, Europe in paricular, and especially the UK. Until you're prepared to do that you won't be taken seriously by anyone except Gunga and Oralboy.
izzythepush
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2011 10:25 am
@Ionus,
I'm sorry, you're not an American bigot, you're an Antipodean bigot.
eurocelticyankee
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2011 10:32 am
@izzythepush,
I've heard Jedward are actually #1 in most of Europe at the
moment, Rolling Eyes . Their in Dublin city centre now warming up
the crowd before President Obama appears. There's a free
concert in College Green, some great acts and guests. Especially
Imelda May. My kids went in to see Obama, I'm sorry I didn't.

http://www.rte.ie/ten/2011/0523/obamaconcert.html

He's in England tomorrow.
izzythepush
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2011 11:14 am
@eurocelticyankee,
It looks pretty good from over here. I didn't see whether or not he took a sip of guinness, I think he probably did, unlike Liz or Phil. I suppose we should just be grateful Phil didn't say anything incredibly offensive, he has a bit of a track record. His visit to China and his 'slitty eyes' comment springs to mind. God knows what Obama will make of Jedward.

Anyway back to the topic, if Gerry Adams and Ian Paisley can sit down at the same table and talk, there should be no reason why Israel can't sit down with Hamas.
eurocelticyankee
 
  0  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2011 11:28 am
@izzythepush,
Why not indeed, but it must be remembered it took a mighty
push from the British, Irish and in a big way the US governments.
A lot of the die hards had to be dragged kicking and screaming in to
a new way. Some people are afraid of change and of course there are
the ones who have a vested interest in seeing the violence continue.
It's not easy to get past the die hards and they certainly know how to
play the fear and prejudice card. In fact without the US involvement
I doubt if the peace process would have succeeded and i'm pretty
sure the same can be said regarding peace between Israel and Palestine,
we live in hope.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  4  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2011 11:57 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

If you're going to go on about Lockerbie at least spell it right. It was nothing to do with payoffs, it was to do with the application of Scottish law. You show your own bigotry and bias when you use quotation marks to describe an eminent judge. Similarly your disdain for the UN puts you in opposition to Roosevelt and Churchill, and on the same side of the argument as Hitler.

As I said before, most people over here believe that Al Megrahi was an innocent man. It may have been a bit unfortunate that the justice minister who announced his release sounded just like Frankie Boyle. I don't usually watch Fox News, no I never watch Fox News, but I did then. It was brilliant watching all these far-right commentators spitting feathers because someone in the UK had decided to ignore America and apply the rule of law.


"rule of law" !!! You can't be serious !! Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing His conviction was not overturned by any judicial forum or process. He was instead given a "clemency" release, associated with large commercial contract awards to British firms by Ghadaffi's government, and rationalized by affirmations of his impending death - which many months later appears not to be in the offing. It is fitting that "most people over here believe that Al Megari was (sic) an innocent man", as you say. Otherwise they would have to believe that their justice system is for sale to dictators with juicy contracts in hand. Again "was" is the wrong term - his imminent death did not occur.

Judge Goldstone shamed himself first as the toadie of the UN HRC - a body which includes such stalwart defenders of human rights as North Korea, Congo, Zimbabwe, Belarus,Sri Lanka, Cuba, Equador, Venezuela and Ghadaffi's Lybia - and later more significantly by the obvious one-sided propaganda he put forward as an "objective"assessment of human rights vilations in the recent Gaza conflict, and by the smarmy equivocation he displayed when his lies were confounded by verified facts. I find it very odd that you defend him.

Do you get Fox news over there in the UK? Frankly I rarely watch any TV, wnd even less the propaganda masquerading as "news" that populates it.

izzythepush wrote:

As you claim to know agreat deal about history, I'm astonished to discover you do not understand the term 'legacy of Suez.' It is a very well established term, and I'm not going to bother explaining it to you. I honestly didn't think I'd have to start explaining basic terminology. You are not capable of viewing anything objectively, everything is skewed through some perverse America vs Europe narrative you've got running through your brain. When you look at your own country, you need to take off those rose tinted spectacles and take a peek with the harsh critical gaze with which you view the rest of the world, Europe in paricular, and especially the UK. Until you're prepared to do that you won't be taken seriously by anyone except Gunga and Oralboy.


I haven't made any claims about my historical knowledge, though I have recited a few facts well-known to anyone with a basic education.

My comments have all been in response to your vapid characterization of the United States as the author and sustainer of the conflict in the Middle East and a principal motivator in the continuing confrontation of the Islamic world with "the west". This is, of course a commonly encountered European perspective. However it so flies in the face of the salient facts in the history of the past century or so, that it demands the refutation I have offered.

It appears to me that you are unwilling or unable to deal with these facts and instead indulge in some interesting projection of your own superficial bigotries on me. It's OK with me either way.

As has been noted several times already in our conversation, I largely agree with your assessment of what the situation between Israel and the Palestinians requires, though I am skeptical of the willingness of either party to settle for a peaceful side-by-side existence. I don't read the posts of Gunga and Oralloy and don't accept your collective chartacterization.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2011 12:00 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
You didn't respond at all to my reference to the recent British acceptance of a payoff from Ghadaffi of Libya for the release of the convicted Lockerbee bomber abd killer of many of my countrymen. Was that off topic topic too?


Quote:


FLIGHT 103 AND THE CIA: THE LOCKERBIE COVER-UP

by wakeupmag.co.uk

"If what Pan Am is saying is true, then we have the most major scandal in the history
of government in the twentieth century."
- BERT AMMERMAN, president of American Victims of Flight 103

"How do I renounce my American citizenship? The CIA killed my husband."
- The widow of one of the victims of Flight 103 to Lee Kreindler,
lead attorney for the victims' families


...


On December 5th 1988, the US Embassy in Helsinki received an anonymous telephone warning that "within the next two weeks" an attempt would be made to place a bomb aboard a Pan Am flight from Frankfurt to New York. The caller had a Middle Eastern accent, and may have been an associate of al-Kassar who did not wish his protected pipeline to be sabotaged, even in the name of Islamic militancy. The State Department subsequently circulated an unclassified warning to all its embassies.

This was a time when many Americans would be going home for Christmas, and the Helsinki warning was taken particularly seriously by the US embassy in Moscow, who posted an "administrative notice to all employees" warning of the threat. Consequently, not a single Moscow embassy worker took Pan Am Flight 103 from Frankfurt on December 21st, which would normally have been a standard and popular route home for Christmas. (This was to be little consolation to the families of those who, unaware of the State Department's warning to its staff, bought standby tickets for the flight vacated by the American diplomats).

...


On December 18th, the BKA was tipped off that there would be a bomb plot against Pan Am Flight 103 in the next two or three days. This again was thought to have come from associates of Nidal and al-Kassar, who wanted to save their protected drug route. They thought that visibly increased security around the airport would put off Jibril's bombing plan. The tip was passed to the CIA unit in Frankfurt. Although anxious not to blow its undercover drugs operation, the CIA passed the warning on to the State Department.

On December 20th, twenty-four hours before Pan Am 103's take-off, an undercover Mossad agent passed on yet another warning, this time relating specifically to Flight 103 the next day, and CIA headquarters sent warnings to various embassies - but not apparently to Pan Am.

A huge entourage of South African government officials, including then foreign minister Pik Botha, were booked on Pan Am 103 but switched flights at the last minute. This appears to indicate that the apartheid regime was also tipped off about the bomb plot, most likely by British intelligence, who had close links with the South African security forces. (Botha changed to the earlier flight, Pan Am 101, which, unlike Flight 103, had special security checks at Heathrow).


...

Within 24 to 48 hours before the departure of Pan Am 103 from Frankfurt, a black Mercedes parked at the airport and the Turkish baggage-handler picked up a suitcase from the car and placed it in the employee locker area in the airport. This was his usual practice with drug shipments.

At 15.21 on December 21st, airport staff began loading passenger baggage aboard the Boeing 727 that was to fly the first leg of Flight 103 from Frankfurt to Heathrow. Khalid Nazir Jafaar boarded the plane after checking in one piece of luggage. After all the checked suitcases had passed through security, the Turkish Pan Am baggage-handler took the bomb suitcase and placed it on the luggage cart, in substitution for Jafaar's.

A BKA surveillance agent reported "suspicious behaviour" in the Pan Am baggage-loading area about an hour before the plane's departure. He noticed that the substituted suitcase, a brown Samsonite, was different in make, shape, material and colour from that used for all previous drug shipments. Like all the BKA agents on the scene, he had been especially alert due to all the bomb tips. He phoned in a report, saying something was very wrong. The BKA passed its agent's information to the local CIA unit, who reported to their Control. Control replied: "Don't worry about it. Don't stop it. Let it go."

No action was taken: the CIA unit issued no instructions to the BKA and the BKA did nothing. (The BKA covertly videotaped the baggage-loading area on that day. The videotape reportedly shows the perpetrator in the act. This tape was held by the BKA, who subsequently claimed to have "lost" it. However, a copy had been made earlier and given to the CIA, who have since refused to release it).

With 128 passengers and an estimated 135 pieces of luggage, Pan Am Flight 103 arrived at Heathrow airport on time. Forty-nine passengers, mostly American civilians, then boarded the plane for the transatlantic leg of the flight. Their bags were stowed on the port side of the forward cargo hold.

A further 210 passengers with baggage now joined the flight, but because of the US State Department's warnings to its embassy staffs, the aircraft was barely more than two-thirds full when it took off at 18.25, twenty-five minutes late.


http://www.american-buddha.com/cia.lockerbie.htm


 

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