0
   

Obunga: Palestine must be based on 67 borders........

 
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2011 08:31 am
@Foofie,
Those were not the teerms the Nazis offered. They were willing to allow Britain to keep its empire and wanted free rein in Europe. Britain refused despite enduring the Blitz. America was fighting in it's own interests. Britain and America happened to be on the same side. The contribution of the Soviet Union was far more significant to the defeat of Nazi Germany than anything else, but Russians don't expect our thanks.

The Blitz was the equivalent of a 9/11 everyday. Judging by America's hysteria to 9/11 compared with our dignified response to 7/7 it's patently obvious America could not have endured the Blitz. It was not for nothing that Churchill described the Battle of Britain as our finest hour. As for America's nobility, a country with rampaging Islamaphobia, a refusal to accept international law, a country that tortures prisoners and is too cowardly to put terrorist suspects on trial does not sound that noble to me.

How about a 'simple thank you,' for fighting America's wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2011 09:20 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Those were not the teerms the Nazis offered. They were willing to allow Britain to keep its empire and wanted free rein in Europe. Britain refused despite enduring the Blitz. America was fighting in it's own interests. Britain and America happened to be on the same side. The contribution of the Soviet Union was far more significant to the defeat of Nazi Germany than anything else, but Russians don't expect our thanks.
The Nazis also offered the Czech people fairly good terms (brokered by British PM Neville Chamberlain) that if they would only surrender the Sudetenland (and their defensible borders) they would enjoy peace and independence. It didn't work out that way for them. Britain's refusal of Hitlers supposed offer, though entirely admirable, was by then the only real choice. It was clear the Nazis would respect no terms.

izzythepush wrote:
The Blitz was the equivalent of a 9/11 everyday. Judging by America's hysteria to 9/11 compared with our dignified response to 7/7 it's patently obvious America could not have endured the Blitz. It was not for nothing that Churchill described the Battle of Britain as our finest hour.
The death tolls in the two attacks were very far out of proportion to the ratios of our respective populations - not very comparable at all.

The Battle of Britain was indeed a noble enterprise. However you got yourselves into that corner with the follies of WWI; the "peace to end all peace" you inflicted at Versailles; your (and France's) timidity during Hitler's early years; and your betrayal of Poland. (By the way there were lots of Polish aviators flying fighters in the RAF in that struggle - and they got a disproportionate fraction of the kills).

izzythepush wrote:

How about a 'simple thank you,' for fighting America's wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
OK... Thank You. (actually thank Tony Blair)

Considering that in Iraq we were cleaning up a mess left over from Britain's dismantling of the Ottoman state and attempt (in the 1920s) to rule Iraq (you got kicked our in an armed insurrection that led directly to the creation of the Baath political party that spawned Saddam - and Assad of Syria), your help in this role was the least you could do without shame. This and Afghanistan are not really "America's wars", though your characterization of them is in keeping with popular contemporary views in the UK and Western Europe. Your contributions in Afghanistan are part of your obligations under ther NATO treaty, and your contributions, though significant and needed, are not in proportion to our respective sizes. (This is a fact that involves all our NATO allies, and one that has seriouslty diminished the stature of that alliance in the eyes of most Americans.)

It might be worthwhile for you to contemplate the likely trajectory of the "Arab Spring" if Saddam were still in power, and to consider the likely connections that history will likely make between the overthrow of his rule and the events we are beginning to see now.

izzythepush wrote:

As for America's nobility, a country with rampaging Islamaphobia, a refusal to accept international law, a country that tortures prisoners and is too cowardly to put terrorist suspects on trial does not sound that noble to me.
We have different concepts of International law. A flabby and supine Europe needs to believe that the proceedings of institutions like the EU and the UN constitute "International Law" Unfortunately they are not recognized as such by most of the nations of the world. Indeed you have quite enough problems of your own in the EU to begin to understand that evident principle.

"Islamophobia" is a nice big word, but it doesn't describe the facts here. We are very proficient at assimilating immigrants from everywhere and their contributions to a common culture that we all have created. Those who reject that culture and that principle are themselves rejected. Nothing new there. We have long had a very large population of immigrants from Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Pakistan, and more recently Afghanistan and Central Asia. Overall I believe we do a good deal better in assimilating them into our culture than do you.

We have put a number of terrorist suspects on trial, and now that our feckless President has failed at his sappy attempts to curry favor with the hand-wringers of the world, are likely to proceed with the trials by military tribunals (entirely within "international law") that the previous Administration authorized.

Anyway, nobody's perfect. We are a little tough on those who inflict injury on us and your system of justice (and loyalty to supposed allies) is for sale to tyrants from Lybia.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2011 10:50 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Those were not the teerms the Nazis offered. They were willing to allow Britain to keep its empire and wanted free rein in Europe. Britain refused despite enduring the Blitz. America was fighting in it's own interests. Britain and America happened to be on the same side. The contribution of the Soviet Union was far more significant to the defeat of Nazi Germany than anything else, but Russians don't expect our thanks.

The Blitz was the equivalent of a 9/11 everyday. Judging by America's hysteria to 9/11 compared with our dignified response to 7/7 it's patently obvious America could not have endured the Blitz. It was not for nothing that Churchill described the Battle of Britain as our finest hour. As for America's nobility, a country with rampaging Islamaphobia, a refusal to accept international law, a country that tortures prisoners and is too cowardly to put terrorist suspects on trial does not sound that noble to me.

How about a 'simple thank you,' for fighting America's wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.


Pshaw. No. I do not have the authority to thank anyone in behalf of the U.S.A. In my own opinion, Britain, starting from the late 19th century treated the U.S.A. much better than it did previously, likely due to its awareness of how it would need the help of the U.S.A. in the 20th century. The awareness goes on in a world where Britain is just an island nation. The term in American history is called The Rappoachment, meaning the U.S.A. started to get along with Britain. Before that (early 19th century) many Americans had dislike of Mother England.

Anyway, your perceptions are yours, and you are not going to change mine, or many others. Remember, your country is today the veritable ant talking to the elephant. The U.S.A. being the elephant. Do not spoil another picnic, Mr. Ant, so to speak.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2011 10:53 am
@JTT,
Your replies are just too angry and strident to warrant my response. Anger really has no place in a logical discussion.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2011 11:02 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

.

Anyway, your perceptions are yours, and you are not going to change mine, or many others. Remember, your country is today the veritable ant talking to the elephant. The U.S.A. being the elephant. Do not spoil another picnic, Mr. Ant, so to speak.


I'm sorry, I was forgetting how rampant morbid obesity was in the USA.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2011 12:07 pm
@Foofie,
A typical cowardly Foofie response.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2011 12:48 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

Your replies are just too angry and strident to warrant my response. Anger really has no place in a logical discussion.


Being patronising, and refusing to debate the real issue are essential componants of logic.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2011 01:03 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

I'm sorry, I was forgetting how rampant morbid obesity was in the USA.


Now there's a telling, incisive and eminently logical counterargument !

He sounds a little girlish to me.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2011 06:55 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

A typical cowardly Foofie response.


Being Jewish, I may be as timid as I like. I do not have to live up to any reputation of machismo.
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2011 07:17 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
America was fighting in it's own interests.
Britain was fighting in its own interests .

Quote:
Britain and America happened to be on the same side.
Germany and Japan happened to be on the other side .

Quote:
Russians don't expect our thanks. How about a 'simple thank you,' (to Britain)
Will you be thanking the Russians ?

Quote:
it's patently obvious America could not have endured the Blitz
Do you know what xenophobia is ?

Quote:
rampaging Islamaphobia
Is that better or worse than your phobia of Jews ?

Quote:
a country (the USA) that tortures prisoners
Do you really think Britain did not torture prisoners ?
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2011 07:20 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
I'm sorry, I was forgetting how rampant morbid obesity was in the USA.
Pity you dont remember how Britain would have starved without food from the USA and Commonwealth during WWII .
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2011 07:24 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
A typical cowardly Foofie response.
Not like you at all....you demand the world do what you want because you are cleverer than everybody else put together . Only you can steer all the governments of the world....but first you have to kill 300 million war criminals in the USA....despite being unable to prove one solitary case that you have repeatedly highlighted ...mine . Start off small and impress the world...prove I am a war criminal .
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2011 07:26 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Being patronising
Shocked How can you say that without realising how patronising your posts are ???

Quote:
refusing to debate the real issue
So you decide the real issue ? Do you have these feelings of grandeur a lot ?
0 Replies
 
wmwcjr
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2011 09:03 pm
@JTT,
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_omk7dxCwoak/SxBIbeegRHI/AAAAAAAABao/0Fp0Dy5WRxQ/s1600/LiberalIdiot.jpg
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2011 03:28 am
Dear JoinTalibanTerrorism

"A Veteran is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to The United States of America for an amount up to and including LIFE. That is honor, and there are too many people in this country who no longer understand it." (Author Unknown)

Are you sure they are ALL war criminals ?
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2011 10:15 am
@wmwcjr,
That looks like one of the tea party.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2011 10:25 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

Quote:
I'm sorry, I was forgetting how rampant morbid obesity was in the USA.
Pity you dont remember how Britain would have starved without food from the USA and Commonwealth during WWII .


Pity you don't remember we paid for it, or do you have a problem with international trade as well as international law?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2011 11:16 am
@Foofie,
Nor do you have to live up to any notions of honesty or truth, Foofie. Keep on being Foofie.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2011 11:27 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
.prove I am a war criminal .


Prove that you aren't.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2011 12:08 pm
@JTT,
Who would you class as a Jew hater, someone who wishes Israel to live in peace with its neighbours, or someone who wishes constant strife? Now democracy is sweeping the Middle East there won't be any compliant dictatorships on the borders. These new democracies will not be content with the way the Palestinians are denied justice. The opening of the crossing into Gaza is just the start. Israel would do well to start treating the peace process seriously now, because they won't be holding all the cards for much longer.
 

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