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THE WAR IN GAZA

 
 
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2008 12:41 pm
Israel responds in self-defense to five years of Hamas rocket attacks on civilians . . . and of course, Arabs and the U.N. are "outraged"


Since 2003, Hamas terrorists have been launching rockets from Gaza into the Western Negev desert town of Sderot and more recently the larger city of Ashkelon---well over 5,000 missiles have landed in Israel to date, hundreds of which were launched in the last week, including one recent day in which 80 rockets hit Israel. This is clearly war, initiated by Hamas. Predictably, the Arab world is "outraged" at Israel's response, and the U.N. security council has called for both parties to cease fire.

Imagine how the U.S., Germany, Italy, Turkey or China would respond to attacks like this. How long would these countries permit daily cross-border rocket attacks on their civilians to continue without definitive, crushing response? Yet Israeli response until this weekend has been restrained, limited to occasional targeted retaliation on individual Hamas rocket-launching teams, when they could be located.

Israel cannot delay any longer. Its citizens plea for a stop to the attacks and a return to security. Now is the time for Israel to protect its cities through a military response against the terror infrastructure in Gaza. It's called self-defense.

Israel turned Gaza over to the Palestinians five years ago to create an opportunity for peace. In return, the Hamas terror organization took control of Gaza and is using its citizens as cover while it a) deliberately targets Israeli residential communities, b) espouses destruction of the state of Israel, and c) rejects every peace overture offered by Israel and the international community. For example, Israel agreed to a truce with Hamas through Egypt, which was violated by Hamas through continued rocket attacks, attempts to plant improvised explosive devices (IEDs) in Israel, imprisonment of Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit, and smuggling of increasingly deadly arms through tunnels to Egypt and by sea.

Even Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas declared this weekend that he had reached out to Hamas, urging them to continue the recent ceasefire with Israel. Even Abbas says that Hamas is responsible for Israel's forceful response. Why then does the international community put the onus on Israel (as it did during the Lebanon war in 2006) to end the fighting?

Imagine this: Despite everything, Israel continues to allow shipments of medical and other humanitarian materials into Gaza, it treats Palestinian victims of misaimed Hamas rocket attacks, and it attempts to avoid or minimize harm to Palestinian civilians, hundreds of thousands of whom live in neighborhoods and buildings in which Hamas has located its operations headquarters.

Unfortunately, Hamas cynically abuses its own civilian population and uses their suffering for propaganda purposes. Clearly, the responsibility for harm to Palestinian civilians lies with Hamas.

Hamas is a terrorist organization, supported by Iran, which does not represent the legitimate national interests of the Palestinian people. Rather, it advocates a radical, global Islamist agenda that seeks to impose fundamentalist religious law (Sharia) upon its people and all other people in the Middle East.

While confronting Hamas, Israel continues to believe in a two-state solution and remains committed to negotiations with the legitimate Palestinian Authority in the context of the peace process, launched at Annapolis. In defiance of the international community, Hamas has consistently and categorically rejected this path to peace.

-- factsandlogic.org
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Type: Discussion • Score: 31 • Views: 51,675 • Replies: 1,157

 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2008 12:48 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:

Israel responds in self-defense to five years of Hamas rocket attacks on civilians . . . and of course, Arabs and the U.N. are "outraged"




I could imagine that quoting from a pro-Israel site is as un-biased as unsourced quotes like "the UN is outraged". Twisted Evil
(You remember: The U.S.A. is a MEMBER of THE UN.)

InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2008 02:04 pm
Also, what Advi fails to mention is that the rocket attacks are perpetrated in response to Israel's killing of Palestinian militants. Israel is a world leader in non-leathal force technology, and can apprehend any suspects with relative ease. Instead it chooses to use leathal force fully cognizant of the fact that their killing of suspected militants provokes an escalatory response from the militants.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2008 04:05 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

Also, what Advi fails to mention is that the rocket attacks are perpetrated in response to Israel's killing of Palestinian militants.


Israel needs to kill more and more HAMAS militants.
The Palestinian people need to kill HAMAS militants.
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2008 04:15 pm
HAMAS is now launching new Iranian supplied missiles deep into Israel...

How long will it be until someone smacks Iran down a notch or two?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2008 04:22 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

HAMAS is now launching new Iranian supplied missiles deep into Israel...


According to Israelian military sources, those Katyushas are either made in China or in Iran. (Though there were built in dozens of countries since WWII - Israel developed its own models, too.)
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2008 04:23 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

H2O MAN wrote:

HAMAS is now launching new Iranian supplied missiles deep into Israel...


According to Israelian military sources, those Katyushas are either made in China or in Iran. (Though there were built in dozens of countries since WWII - Israel developed its own models, too.)


The most recent reports point directly at Iran's IRGC as the the sole supplier of the Grad-type missiles.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2008 04:25 pm
@H2O MAN,
I got it from the Israelian forces radio - 23 minutes ago.
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2008 04:27 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
My information is fresher than yours Wink
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2008 04:30 pm
@H2O MAN,
No doubt. I don't have such good connections. (My answer was about the Katyushas, though.)
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2008 05:17 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter, it is just terrible how Israel defends itself.

Your post make me think of the time before the '67 war, when Israel essentially never set foot in the WB and Gaza. Israel was rewarded with hundreds of gratuitous attacks from the Pals.

Hamas is a lot like the Nazis, who were for destroying Jews anywhere they lived.
blueflame1
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2008 05:29 pm
"Israel is an occupying power," Ashwari angrily told CNN's John Roberts on Monday. "In Gaza, they've been under siege for months now, deprived of the most basic needs. ... And now Israel has decided that if the victims do not lie down and die quietly, it's going to shell them relentlessly from the air."

"Israel is playing politics with captive Palestinian lives," continued Ashwari. "In the middle of an elections campaign, they get their conventions by how many Palestinians they can kill. ... We see only a human tragedy ... and we see the Israeli parties playing politics with our lives. " http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Palestinian_lawmaker_Gaza_attacks_premeditated__1229.html
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2008 05:49 pm
I think it was nice that nothing started before the Christmas pilgrims headed back to their respective countries. Thank goodness the spirit of Christmas was peaceful!
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2008 09:18 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Advocate wrote:

Israel responds in self-defense to five years of Hamas rocket attacks on civilians . . . and of course, Arabs and the U.N. are "outraged"




I could imagine that quoting from a pro-Israel site is as un-biased as unsourced quotes like "the UN is outraged". Twisted Evil
(You remember: The U.S.A. is a MEMBER of THE UN.)



What do you quote from, pro-terrorist sites, Walter?

This is just another example of the Israelis defending themselves, which seems to pretty much be the case ever since I started noticing the Middle East, back to about 1967.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2008 02:27 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

What do you quote from, pro-terrorist sites, Walter?


I sincerely beg you pardon, okie, but the USA is a founding member of the UN. And there's no response by the UN similar to what Advocaze quoted.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2008 04:18 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Besides that: since Israel bars journalists not only from Gaza but from the Gaza border region as well, no-one actually can get 'independent' reports, I think.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2008 08:36 am
Here is why Israel feels threatened.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/30/opinion/30morris.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&ref=opinion&adxnnlx=1230647611-EFPo6GF15iHJh14MzxAyxQ
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2008 09:33 am
Here is the Hamas charter, in full.

http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm

Quote:
Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."


So, how do you negotiate with someone whose only goal is your destruction?
Do you try and come to an agreement about how and when they are going to kill you?

Do you try and negotiate a way to make it easier for them to kill you?
When the only goal of the enemy is your total and complete destruction, you dont talk to them, you destroy them.

Actually, there is more to the charter then the little bit I posted, you need to look at the website I linked to to see it all.
But for those of you that believe Israel can negotiate with Hamas, I would point out to you that even Hamas says that

Quote:
Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement

Thats from article 13 of the Hamas charter.

So, if Hamas admits that talking is not part of their worldview, then why does everyone keep demanding that Isreal talk to them?
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2008 10:32 am
@Advocate,
Goodwin's law in just 5 posts.... impressive.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2008 10:37 am
I find it hard to distinguish the actions of the Israeli government from the actions of Hamas.

Both sides have made the same choice-- deciding that militancy, harsh words and demonizing the other side is the best way forward. Neither side is listening to the concerns of the other... and neither side is interested in finding a compromise solution.

Of course, Hamas doesn't represent all Palestinians, nor does the current hawkish Israeli government represent all Israeli's.

The sad irony is that it was the bellicose actions of the Israeli government that put the militant Hamas in power... and it was the bellicose actions of Hamas that put a war-loving Israeli government in power.

I hope that both sides realize what asses their leaders are. The violence won't stop until voices of reasonable people are heard on both sides.

The sad thing is that right now both sides are the same.

They are both completely certain that their actions are justified.
And they both think they can win.
 

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