0
   

Obunga: Palestine must be based on 67 borders........

 
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 02:56 am
@gungasnake,
During the British Mandate in Palestine there was a significant population of indiginous Palestinians. Many were thrown out of their homes and murdered during the creation of Israel. There is still a significant population of refugees. These people should be afforded the same human rights as the Israelis. You have your own sick view of the world, and you spend all your time trawling through the internet, not to find out the truth to anything, but to support your own bigotry.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 11:34 am
@gungasnake,
Quote:
As to Amerinds, you have to ask yourself where they'd be if Europeans hadn't gotten to the New World at all. The basic answer is that Chinese, Japanese, and Mongols would have gotten here and the Amerinds would have been altogether exterminated. Nature hates vacuums.


Actually, that's not at all how things have worked out, is it, Gunga? What did happen was that the transplanted portion of Europeans, [the remaining portion, you, Gob and other right wing nutcases love to dump all over], did commit acts of genocide against Native Americans.

It's pretty lame of you sitting around thinking up hypotheticals as an excuse for the historical behavior of the US.

Quote:

Statement of the Lakota Student Alliance Regarding
Mt. Rushmore and the Black Hills
December 2, 1997

Mt. Rushmore is a Shrine of HYPOCRISY!
Mt. Rushmore is a desecration of our Sacred Mother Earth and a slap in the face of Lakota peoples everywhere. Documents have stated that Mt. Rushmore in the Black Hills of South Dakota is a shrine to democracy. As you read further, you will find that American was founded on the blood and lives of Indian peoples. We question what type of democracy this shrine represents.

The four faces carved on stolen Indian lands supposedly represent the four most notable presidents of the United States. With their ideals and values defined through the study of Iroquois society, America's founding fathers are indebted to the Lakota and all Indian peoples for their mere existence. But, in the Sacred Black Hills (our church, our synagogue, our temple) those presidents carved on that granite rock were more than mere democratic deviants.

The founding fathers on that rock shared common characteristics. All four valued white supremacy and promoted the extirpation of Indian society. The United States' founding fathers were staunchly anti-Indian advocates in that at one time or another, all four provided for genocide against Indian peoples of this hemisphere.


George Washington...
In 1779, George Washington instructed Major General John Sullivan to attack Iroquois people. Washington stated, "lay waste all the settlements around...that the country may not be merely overrun, but destroyed". In the course of the carnage and annihilation of Indian people, Washington also instructed his general not "listen to any overture of peace before the total ruin of their settlements is effected". (Stannard, David E. AMERICAN HOLOCAUST. New York: Oxford University Press, 1992. pp. 118-121.)

In 1783, Washington's anti-Indian sentiments were apparent in his comparisons of Indians with wolves: "Both being beast of prey, tho' they differ in shape", he said. George Washington's policies of extermination were realized in his troops behaviors following a defeat. Troops would skin the bodies of Iroquois "from the hips downward to make boot tops or leggings". Indians who survived the attacks later re-named the nation's first president as "Town Destroyer". Approximately 28 of 30 Seneca towns had been destroyed within a five year period. (Ibid)

Thomas Jefferson...
In 1807, Thomas Jefferson instructed his War Department that, should any Indians resist against America stealing Indian lands, the Indian resistance must be met with "the hatchet". Jefferson continued, "And...if ever we are constrained to lift the hatchet against any tribe, " he wrote, "we will never lay it down till that tribe is exterminated, or is driven beyond the Mississippi." Jefferson, the slave owner, continued, "in war, they will kill some of us; we shall destroy all of them". (Ibid)

In 1812, Jefferson said that American was obliged to push the backward Indians "with the beasts of the forests into the Stony Mountains". One year later Jefferson continued anti-Indian statements by adding that America must "pursue [the Indians] to extermination, or drive them to new seats beyond our reach". (Ibid)

Abraham Lincoln...
In 1862, President Abraham Lincoln ordered the execution, by hanging, of 38 Dakota Sioux prisoners in Mankato, Minnesota. Most of those executed were holy men or political leaders of their camps. None of them were responsible for committing the crimes they were accused of. Coined as the Largest Mass Execution in U.S. History. (Brown, Dee. BURY MY HEART AT WOUNDED KNEE. New York: Holt, Rinehart, Winston, 1970. pp. 59-61)

Theodore Roosevelt...
The fourth face you see on that "Stony Mountain" is America's first twentieth century president, alleged American hero, and Nobel peace prize recipient, Theodore Roosevelt. This Indian fighter firmly grasped the notion of Manifest Destiny saying that America's extermination of the Indians and thefts our their lands "was ultimately beneficial as it was inevitable". Roosevelt once said, "I don't go so far as to think that the only good Indians are dead Indians, but I believe nine out of ten are, and I shouldn't like to inquire too closely into the case of the tenth". (Stannard, Op.Cit.)

The apathy displayed by these founding fathers symbolize the demoralization related to racial superiority. Scholars point toward this racial polarization as evidence of the existence of Eugenics.

Eugenics is a new term for an old phenomena which asserts that Indian people should be exterminated because they are an inferior race of people. Jefferson's suggestion to pursue the Indians to extermination fits well into the eugenistic vision. In David Stannard's study American Holocaust, he writes: "had these same words been enunciated by a German leader in 1939, and directed at European Jews, they would be engraved in modern memory. Since they were uttered by one of America's founding fathers, however...they conveniently have become lost to most historians in their insistent celebration of Jefferson's wisdom and humanity." Roosevelt feared that American upper classes were being replaced by the "unrestricted breeding" of inferior racial stocks, the "utterly shiftless", and the "worthless" (Ibid)

The impossibility of persuading those four presidents to change their belief is as realistic as the impossibility that Indian peoples will relinquish our determination in seeking the return and restoration of the sacred Black Hills. So long as the last Lakota is standing and alive, the consciousness of America will be the primary target in the Lakota struggle to regain the spiritual center: The Black Hills.

http://www.dickshovel.com/lsa3.html


gungasnake
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 02:42 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
There is still a significant population of refugees...


Sixty years after the fact, there is no such thing as a refugee. What you have is a bunch of savages living in UN "refugee camps(TM)" fomenting terrorism and murder at the expense of people in the world who work for a living. A big part of the problem is the behavior of the "palestinians" themselves; any normal/decent group of people have have been absorbed by other slammite countries decades ago.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 02:50 pm
@gungasnake,
Quote:
Sixty years after the fact, there is no such thing as a refugee. What you have is a bunch of savages living in UN "refugee camps(TM)"


Was this patterned after the Indian Reservations?
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 03:11 pm
@gungasnake,
The savages are the IDF.
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 05:26 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

georgebob said

I do enjoy reading the words of an hypocritical Brit pontificating about how the United States screwed up the Middle east.

Well there's nothing hypocritical about you, having stolen the land of your own indiginous population, and carried out a programme of extermination, you're now helping the Israeli colonists do the same to theirs.


So ?? The Anglo Saxons did the same to the original Celtic inhabitants of Britain and the Normans later did it to the Anglo Saxons. That is simply the history of mankind since the beginning. Besides, most of the extermination in North America occurred under British rule and particularly during & after the Seven Years war as the British and French turned their respective Iriquois and Huron indian allies against the colonists in their fight for supremacy. It appears to me that you don't know much about your own history.

However, if that appeases your guilt and shame after the lasting effects of the mischief your country has done in the past 100 years in pursuit of empire to create precisely the problems you were citing in the Middle East for which you were so hypocritically chastizing the United States, then I am pleased for you ... contemptous, but pleased.
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 06:16 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

During the British Mandate in Palestine there was a significant population of indiginous Palestinians. Many were thrown out of their homes and murdered during the creation of Israel. There is still a significant population of refugees. These people should be afforded the same human rights as the Israelis. You have your own sick view of the world, and you spend all your time trawling through the internet, not to find out the truth to anything, but to support your own bigotry.


Oh, you mean just after the British, who lied to and betrayed both parties in the dispute, simply bugged out, bequeathing the problem they had created to the hapless UN?
gungasnake
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 06:35 pm
http://www.thelookingspoon.com/tlsimages/blog/2011/jews_for_obama_2012_logo.jpg
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 06:39 pm
Basic cold hard reality:

There wasn't a single Jew who died in the 1940s because he could not get out of Germany or Nazi-controlled territories; several million died because they could not get INTO any other country on the planet.

THAT is why there has to be a Jewish state in the world and there is no other logical place for Jewish state than the traditional and ancient Jewish land of Israel. Muslim arabs who might have been living in that area at the time simply needs to get their heads around the fact that there was a prior claim on the land, and in fact that is why you pay for title insurance when you buy a house. That's normal.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 06:57 pm
@izzythepush,
Will you be giving Britain back to the Scots, Picts, Celts, Welsh, Romans, Normans, Vikings, Angles, Saxons or Jutes ? Or did you exterminate those when they were the indigenous population ?
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 06:59 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
did commit acts of genocide against Native Americans.
Where do you live ? Will you be going back to the Caucasus ?
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 07:01 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
Was this patterned after the Indian Reservations?
No, it was the PLO's own pattern . They forced the Palestinians to live in those camps so they would have more political leverage . Many attempts were made to resettle them in Arab countries, the vast majority of which were thwarted by the PLO . But you know nothing of history or the English language...what hope have you in this topic ?
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 07:02 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
The savages are the IDF.
Is that because the Palestinians fire missiles into Israel ? Or because you just hate Jews ?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 07:31 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
It appears to me that you don't know much about your own history.


The finger pointing is terribly hypocritical, Gob.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 07:48 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Oh, you mean just after the British, who lied to and betrayed both parties in the dispute, simply bugged out, bequeathing the problem they had created to the hapless UN?


I'd like to learn more about this situation, but again, Gob, the finger pointing is unseemly, especially coming from you. Why? Because you are patently unfair when it comes to discussing situations where the US has done much worse than bug out.

Why, after more than a half century, with the clout that the US possesses, has nothing really been done to rectify the situation. I can offer one idea; the US doesn't want to see the problems solved, the US doesn't need the problems solved. It's actually more beneficial to US strategic interests, not to mention profits, if things stay pretty much as they are.

There's certainly more than ample evidence that the US doesn't give a damn about the citizenry of any particular country. We don't have to go past a few of the countries surrounding Israel to know that, although if we did there would be a surfeit of countries that illustrated the same thing.

If Israel weren't there to provide a huge distraction, where would the focus be? On none other than the US and its "role" in the ME. This is another reason why you should not be pointing fingers.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 08:03 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
Will you be giving Britain back to the Scots, Picts, Celts, Welsh, Romans, Norman ...


That's the third, nearly identical one in the last 12 hours or so. Are you, High Seas and Gob passing these nonsensical memes to each other?
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 08:11 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
Where do you live ?


You're back to square one with your inane questions.

And yes, Americans of many stripe did commit acts of genocide against Native Americans. The US governments, state governments too, also committed acts of genocide against Native Americans.

Do you want some proof? Oh, I forgot, you don't do proof. Even when you raise an issue. The sum total of your contributions are a smattering of goofy one liners.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 May, 2011 01:41 am
@JTT,
Quote:
The finger pointing is terribly hypocritical
Will you be telling us what your faults are ?
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Sat 21 May, 2011 01:43 am
@JTT,
Quote:
Are you, High Seas and Gob passing these nonsensical memes to each other?
Of course logic is non-sensical to you...you don't understand English, history, politics....hell, it is a wonder you can breathe with a brain operating on such a low level....
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Sat 21 May, 2011 01:43 am
@JTT,
No, I want to know where you live....cant you read English ? I know you cant understand it.....
0 Replies
 
 

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