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Israel's Reality

 
 
Miller
 
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2014 08:31 pm
Israel's Reality

By David Harris
Boston Globe, July 18, 2014

The latest Hamas-triggered war with Israel is now in its second week.

The hope for an early end was dashed when an Egyptian-brokered ceasefire proposal was accepted by Israel, but was met by Hamas with a new barrage of rockets aimed at the Jewish state.

Israel is dealing with a situation that no other democratic country has had to face in recent years—though, with an armed-to-the-teeth and unpredictable North Korea right next door, Japan and South Korea may be in the best position to grasp Israel's unenviable challenge.

Try to imagine that a neighbor of the United States has smuggled or assembled thousands of missiles with a range of hundreds of miles, and that neighbor has declared a goal of inflicting the greatest possible damage on our country, whose legitimacy it does not recognize.

What would our government do?

It could bury its head in the sand pretending the threat did not exist, until one day the first missile comes flying across the border.

It could attempt to show restraint, hoping this would set an example for the other side, unless, of course, the other side interprets our behavior as weakness and lack of political will.

It could respond "proportionately" to any attack by firing, say, one missile for each one sent our way, but that could lead to an interminable war and countless casualties.

It could follow the tempting prescription put forth by those calling for coexistence, as if every conflict has a negotiated settlement built in, and as if our adversary were not ideologically determined to destroy us.

Or it could conclude, as Israel has, that the adversary is determined at all costs to wage war, won't change its outlook, and seeks to maximize murder and mayhem, and that this adversary must therefore be answered with a strong, unambiguous response.

It is important to recall that it did not have to be this way.

In 2005, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon unilaterally withdrew all settlers and soldiers from Gaza, giving this narrow strip of land its first chance in history, following previous occupations by the Egyptians, British, Ottomans, and others, to exercise sovereignty.

That could have become the springboard for a new start, perhaps the beginning of a Singapore on the Mediterranean.

But within two years, Hamas, categorized as a terrorist group by the U.S. and European Union, seized power. Rather than Gaza's construction, the goal became Israel's destruction. The Hamas Charter chillingly spells it all out. Building missiles became a national obsession. Where schools were built, too often education for "martyrdom" was the norm – and a special facility was set aside for an arms depot, just as in many hospitals and mosques.

Hamas simply does not play by the rules governing democratic societies. In that spirit, it does not try to protect civilians, but uses them for protection, as human shields for rocket launchers and other weapons systems.

All this can be difficult for some outside the region to grasp. It runs so contrary to how we live our daily lives, much less how, when necessary, we wage war as democratic nations.

But it is Israel's reality. The geography cannot be changed. Hamas has been firmly entrenched in power for seven years right next door, in Gaza, its arsenal steadily growing in punch and reach.

This, then, is a time for moral clarity in the international community.

If the fundamental distinction between Israel and Hamas – between the fireman and the arsonist, between the democratic society and the despotic regime – cannot be recognized, then woe unto us.

If the stark fact that Hamas seeks to inflict maximum damage on Israel, while Israel's only aim is attaining long-term quiet on its Gaza border, then our vision has failed us.

If Hamas's indiscriminate firing of missiles with the hope of hitting any Israeli target, be it a kindergarten or a nursing home, does not stand in stark contrast to Israel's warnings for civilians to evacuate certain planned targets in Gaza, then something essential is missing from an understanding of the conflict.

This is a time for full-throated support of Israel, the only democratic nation in the region and our most steadfast ally.

This is also a time for Washington to reconsider its regrettable decision to recognize the so-called Palestinian Authority-Hamas "unity" government. After all, that Hamas is the very same Hamas waging this war.

If peace based on two states for two peoples is ever to come—and I pray it will—then Israel's neighbors must understand the country is strong and here to stay, that the U.S.-Israel relationship is unshakeable, and that only a decisive Palestinian leadership committed to peace, and not in league with Hamas, can help get us there.

David Harris
Executive director of the American Jewish Committee (AJC).
( Via e-mail)






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Type: Discussion • Score: 24 • Views: 28,415 • Replies: 744

 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 04:29 am
@Miller,
This may be Israel's reality...but it sounds to me to be a rather far cry from the reality of the situation.

The state of Israel was set up by outside forces in an area they did not own...and where the state was not welcome.

Why does the state of Israel feel it has a right to exist there...but that the people who were there all along have no right to want it to cease to exist there?

If France, England, Italy, and Germany got together and dictated that a new state of Europe were going to exist in an area they arbitrarily carved out of upper New York State, Vermont, and Massachusetts...do you think the author of that piece would suggest that no one in the United States should attempt to end that new state?

Really?
gungasnake
 
  3  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 05:03 am
@Miller,
If Israel is to be faulted at all in this picture, it is to be faulted for not recognizing and dealing with reality. Netanyahu thinks he might yet fix the problem by totally breaking Hamas and there's a slim chance that might work, but I'd bet against it. You'd have to totally denazify "palestinian" society, totally destroy their perverted education system, and totally fix the situation as was done with Germany in 1946 and that might or might not be possible.

What really needs to happen is for Israel to force the UN and the Arab world to find some halfway rational place to put those fuckers, totally out of missile and tunnel range. Given the size of the muslim world, that should not be difficult.
gungasnake
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 05:08 am
My own take on the "palestinians" is that any other nation on Earth besides Israel would have exterminated them two or three decades ago. In fact Jordanians killed some 30,000 of them in the process of heaving them in the early 70s, for much the same kinds of conduct they exhibit towards Israel. Again in my view, their problems are 100% self-inflicted and would continue unabated were Israel and every Jew on Earth to disappear this evening.

There are no really happy stories in the muslim world since false religions generally do not produce happiness, but the three least happy stories are those of the "palestinians", albanians, and chechens, and palestinians are probably the worst of the lot. Their main problems are, in my view:

1. A false religion which is said to have "bloody borders".
2. Inbreeding. Something like 50% of all muslims are said to be inbred and in places like Pakistan or Gaza, that rises to 60% or 70%. Simple Google searches on "muslim inbreeding" and/or "palestinian inbreeding" will quickly convince you I'm not making this up.
3. A studied and extreme form of victimology which is abetted and reinforced by UN agencies and which you can read about at www.palwatch.org if you're not already familiar with the problem.

Palestinians are basically the kind of people who give barbarians a bad name and it is irrational to expect Israelis to just sit there and absorb the kind of crap which has been being dealt out recently.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 05:30 am
That's the kind of rational, reasoned thinking that will bring peace to that area.


Foofie
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 05:23 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:


Why does the state of Israel feel it has a right to exist there...but that the people who were there all along have no right to want it to cease to exist there?



Because 60 million American bible believing Protestants believe that Jews must live in the Holy Land, as a Zionist State, inorder for yours truly, Jesus Christ, to return. And, if you don't know yet, Frankie baby, Protestants own and run the U.S., and one should be grateful that Jews and Catholics and Buddhists, and Hindus are allowed to be citizens of the U.S., and live comfortable lives. The U.S. is not Catholic Europe. Jews are not expendable in the U.S.. Jews were/are expendable in Catholic Europe. It's just part of the theology, when yours truly came on the scene. Supposedly, all prior covenants were null and void. Everyone was supposed to understand that only Catholics counted, and went to Heaven.

Now that I've explained that, please get off your soap box. Your attitude is embarrassing to those that value American exceptionalism (which includes overcoming the anti-Semitic teachings of the Catholic Church for two-thousand years).
RABEL222
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 07:40 pm
@Foofie,
Gee !!!! 60,000,000 protestants in a country of 300,000,000 people run the country. More foofie revisionist history? And quite a number of the remaining 240,000,000 believe in Christs second coming.
vikorr
 
  4  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 08:12 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
That's the kind of rational, reasoned thinking that will bring peace to that area.
I'm curious as to what you think will bring peace to the area.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 09:56 pm
@Foofie,
Quote:
those that value American exceptionalism


You took exception to being categorized as a supporter of genocide, Foofie, but that is all that the USA is exceptional at, killing people and stealing their wealth. As an avid supporter of this, you are, by definition, a supporter of genocide.

But that has been clear for a good long time.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jul, 2014 02:44 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:


Why does the state of Israel feel it has a right to exist there...but that the people who were there all along have no right to want it to cease to exist there?



Because 60 million American bible believing Protestants believe that Jews must live in the Holy Land, as a Zionist State, inorder for yours truly, Jesus Christ, to return. And, if you don't know yet, Frankie baby, Protestants own and run the U.S., and one should be grateful that Jews and Catholics and Buddhists, and Hindus are allowed to be citizens of the U.S., and live comfortable lives. The U.S. is not Catholic Europe. Jews are not expendable in the U.S.. Jews were/are expendable in Catholic Europe. It's just part of the theology, when yours truly came on the scene. Supposedly, all prior covenants were null and void. Everyone was supposed to understand that only Catholics counted, and went to Heaven.

Now that I've explained that, please get off your soap box. Your attitude is embarrassing to those that value American exceptionalism (which includes overcoming the anti-Semitic teachings of the Catholic Church for two-thousand years).


I am not your "baby", Foofie. Cruise someone else.

I am not an anti-Semite.

I could not care less about how embarrassing I am to people who buy into that American exceptionalism crap.

Anything else I can help you with?
Frank Apisa
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 20 Jul, 2014 02:47 am
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:

Quote:
That's the kind of rational, reasoned thinking that will bring peace to that area.
I'm curious as to what you think will bring peace to the area.


Removing the state of Israel from that area MAY bring peace, but even that will take a long time to come back.

I have no problem with the Jews having a state of their own...or calling it Israel. But it should not be there. Frankly, I'd like to see the Israelis buy up a large tract of land in southern USA or northern Mexico...and set up Israel there.

I know it won't happen...but that is the best chance for peace in that area.
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Sun 20 Jul, 2014 09:08 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

I am not your "baby", Foofie. Cruise someone else.



I was using "baby" in the lexicon of 1950's Beatniks, you being from that generation, I thought.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jul, 2014 11:28 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

I am not your "baby", Foofie. Cruise someone else.



I was using "baby" in the lexicon of 1950's Beatniks, you being from that generation, I thought.


I realized you were.

I was using the "I am not your "baby", Foofie. Cruise someone else" the way people do in the lexicon of the 2010's...meaning, "The Frankie Baby" was uncalled for in this conversation.

We disagree on some things. I listen to what you have to say...I respond.

(I was born in 1936...and I was not really of the Beatnik generation. )



JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sun 20 Jul, 2014 11:44 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
The state of Israel was set up by outside forces in an area they did not own...and where the state was not welcome.


The USA was set up by terrorist forces in an area they did not own...and where they were welcomed - which then led to a massive genocide by the new, kind and benevolent "Americans".

But y'all have no problems hypocritically pointing fingers at others, never for a moment thinking how a wee bit of introspection might be in order.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  2  
Reply Sun 20 Jul, 2014 06:56 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I know it won't happen...but that is the best chance for peace in that area.
It's so far from a realistic suggestion that it seems like the thought is just a balm?
Frank Apisa
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 20 Jul, 2014 07:06 pm
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:

Quote:
I know it won't happen...but that is the best chance for peace in that area.
It's so far from a realistic suggestion that it seems like the thought is just a balm?


Okay...so everything stays the same...and the hatred and killing continues.

hingehead
 
  0  
Reply Sun 20 Jul, 2014 10:29 pm
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/7/21/1405906518116/gazadog.jpg
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jul, 2014 02:38 am
@Frank Apisa,
I think you missed the point of my post... which was also a question, not a statement.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jul, 2014 02:50 am
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:

I think you missed the point of my post... which was also a question, not a statement.


I'm not sure I did...but you can certainly clarify if you think so...and I will respond.

My response was a reaction to your question. Not sure how else to respond to it...unless, as you suggested, I missed the point of it.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jul, 2014 05:43 am
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:
Quote:
That's the kind of rational, reasoned thinking that will bring peace to that area.

I'm curious as to what you think will bring peace to the area.

A good start would be to eliminate any ability of the Palestinians to fire rockets at Israel.

Then the Palestinians can be effectively walled off so that they are unable to harm anyone.
 

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