0
   

The Communist Origin of the Modern Conservative Movement VI

 
 
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2018 10:11 am
@Zardoz,
Quote:
Guns are much like cars some cars are designed to reach 300 mph others have trouble reaching 100 mph. Some guns are designed to fire 900 rounds a minute, others would have trouble firing six.

It's illegal to travel down the road at the speeds you are talking about, it's also illegal to kill people.

Quote:
Assault weapons are designed to kill large numbers of enemy soldiers on a battlefield which is why they are so popular with mass murderers they want to kill as many people as possible in as short a time period as possible. Not all cars can reach 300mph and not all guns can fire 900 rounds a minute.

Civilians can not purchase the military weapons you are talking about, and they are not sold in the US. You really need to learn the difference between a full auto and a semi-auto rife. Hollywood has you all confused about guns.

Quote:
The number of people listed as injured in the Las Vegas shooting was indeed 837. If you’re injured when a building collapses, it is reasonable to believe the collapse of the building caused your injuries. If you are injured at the sight of a mass murder it is reasonable to believe that the guns caused the injuries.

Half that # were actually shot or hit with bullets. They are mixing in people with minor injuries to bolster the #'s. If someone skinned their elbow when they tripped, how does that count as a shooting injury? It doesn't but anything to spew forth more incorrect propaganda is worth it for the anti-gunners.

Quote:
Anyway, you look at it the shooter was the proximate cause of all the injuries.

Anyway you look at it, the MSM and anti-gun crowd are going to do anything they can, to include lying about injuries, to get guns banned. Propaganda 101 at it's finest.

Quote:
Usually the stories on mass murders only list two categories those killed and those injured.

Correct 2 categories, killed and wounded. Skinned knees were never part of the count before, but fake big numbers work for propaganda reasons. I don't know why they deem to take a bad event and make it seem worse.
Rahm Emanual one said "You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before." This guy is the mayor of Chicago, how many murders are there in Chicago per year?

hightor
 
  3  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2018 10:16 am
@Baldimo,
Quote:
That is a lie.

If you think that the only method of accessing firearms is through licensed gun dealers you're just hiding your head in the sand. The more guns that are manufactured and sold means the more opportunities for firearms to be stolen, fenced, and otherwise illegally distributed. Hell, you're the people always telling us that gun laws won't keep criminals from getting hold of firearms and now you quickly try to change the narrative when it's inconvenient..
Quote:

This is a weak argument...

Not as weak as coldjoint's non sequitur. Here, read it again and tell why it's relevant:
Quote:
Criminals do not take those classes.

So what?

Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2018 10:24 am
@hightor,
Quote:
If you think that the only method of accessing firearms is through licensed gun dealers you're just hiding your head in the sand.

I don't think this is the only way, but you have no data, unless you used the debunked 40% without background checks, on how many people use the private sale system. A majority of gun shows across the US require background checks prior to sales, like Colorado does. Do you really think a gang member is going to buy a legal gun with a background check?
We ban guns so bad guys can't get them? Get real.

Quote:
The more guns that are manufactured and sold means the more opportunities for firearms to be stolen, fenced, and otherwise illegally distributed.

So we ban guns for the majority because a small amount of people misuse guns? So much for the Constitution.

Quote:
Hell, you're the people always telling us that gun laws won't keep criminals from getting hold of firearms and now you quickly try to change the narrative when it's inconvenient..

Who changed the narrative?


hightor
 
  2  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2018 10:28 am
@Baldimo,
Quote:
Who changed the narrative?

You did. Where did I mention "banning" guns?
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2018 10:29 am
@hightor,
Lets consider the BS thrown his way by Zardoz:
Quote:
The NRA has one reason to exist and that is to sell more guns for the gun manufacturers

Considering this comment isn't even factual, I thought his response was correct. Since you lefties like to not provide full quotes, I'll do so for clarity.
Quote:
The NRA also teaches people how to handle guns safely. Criminals do not take those classes.

So Zardoz claimed the NRA sells guns, which they don't and the reply was what the NRA actually does, which is provide firearms training. Crooks and people with criminal records do not take those sorts of classes because they can't legally own guns.
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2018 10:31 am
@hightor,
Quote:
You did. Where did I mention "banning" guns?

If you are against the NRA, what other purpose do you have for guns? Let me guess, we can have muskets?
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2018 10:34 am
@Baldimo,
Quote:
Crooks and people with criminal records do not take those sorts of classes because they can't legally own guns.

So what? People don't care if criminals use their guns safely.

And the absence of a criminal record doesn't mean that people won't obtain and use guns for criminal purposes.
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2018 10:40 am
@Baldimo,
Quote:

If you are against the NRA, what other purpose do you have for guns?

Do you really think that without the NRA, guns would have no purpose? I'm against the NRA because it's become a refuge for MAGA "flaggots" who think of themselves as patriots.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2018 11:19 am
@hightor,
Quote:
So what? People don't care if criminals use their guns safely.

So what does the NRA have to do with these types of people? The NRA wants to make sure that legal gun owners know how to use their guns properly. If someone is going to conceal carry, I want them to hit what they are shooting at and not me.

Quote:
And the absence of a criminal record doesn't mean that people won't obtain and use guns for criminal purposes.

True, does that mean we should eliminate the 2nd Amendment because a minority of people in the US are going to do bad things? Do we ban booze because of drunk drivers, there are about 10k drunk driving deaths each year, about equal to murders by guns, should it be banned as well to save people for the few who will do harm?

Quote:
Do you really think that without the NRA, guns would have no purpose?

I think without the NRA, the anti-gun crowd would be well on their way to having the 2nd Amendment repealed, which would indeed lead us one step closer to Tyranny.

Quote:
I'm against the NRA because it's become a refuge for MAGA "flaggots" who think of themselves as patriots.

You could at least be honest and admit that you haven't liked the NRA for longer than 2016, they have been a thorn in the side of the anti-gun crowd for well over 10 years, dating to at least 2004 when they didn't back the extension of the Assault Weapons Ban.
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2018 12:34 pm
@Baldimo,
Quote:
Do we ban booze because of drunk drivers...

Oh for christ's sake, don't you recall that the country tried alcohol prohibition before and it didn't work? Why would we try it again? I love the way you guys think. I've never supported banning firearms but I would support more controls over the types of weapons and accessories that are sold, more thorough background tests, and registration. But if it came down to banning alcohol or banning guns I'd definitely go with the latter.
Quote:
I think without the NRA, the anti-gun crowd would be well on their way to having the 2nd Amendment repealed, which would indeed lead us one step closer to Tyranny.

I like the Trumpian use of caps — "Tyranny"! Is that supposed to be worse than plain old tyranny? Actually, if the NRA had shown some interest in preventing the wrong sorts of people from having access to guns or helping cities stem the flow of illegal weapons I think people would have a much better opinion of that group.
Quote:
You could at least be honest and admit that you haven't liked the NRA for longer than 2016...

There's nothing "dishonest" about my statement. You didn't ask me how long I haven't liked the NRA. I actually began to dislike the NRA in the '80s and that's when I terminated my membership.
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2018 01:05 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
Oh for christ's sake, don't you recall that the country tried alcohol prohibition before and it didn't work?

What makes alcohol more Constitutional than guns?

Quote:
Why would we try it again?

If we can save just one life from a drunk driver wouldn't it be worth it? I mean how much damage is done to people and property from people being drunk and not being able to control themselves? Do you think more people are arrested for drinking issues or weapons issues?

Quote:
I've never supported banning firearms but I would support more controls over the types of weapons and accessories that are sold, more thorough background tests, and registration.

Oh yeah, like what sort of firearms, semi-auto guns? Accessories like pistol grips or adjustable stocks? We can agree on the bump stock but for different reasons.

Quote:
But if it came down to banning alcohol or banning guns I'd definitely go with the latter.

Of course you would, socialism is easier to implement when people can't fight back.

Quote:
There's nothing "dishonest" about my statement. You didn't ask me how long I haven't liked the NRA. I actually began to dislike the NRA in the '80s and that's when I terminated my membership.

Yet the first word out of your mouth about dislike for the NRA has to do with Trump supporters.

hightor
 
  3  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2018 01:59 pm
@Baldimo,
Quote:
If we can save just one life from a drunk driver wouldn't it be worth it?

No.
Quote:
Of course you would, socialism is easier to implement when people can't fight back.

Who's implementing socialism? I'm talking about living under capitalism.
Quote:
Yet the first word out of your mouth about dislike for the NRA has to do with Trump supporters.

That's because the organization gets worse every year — I'm commenting on the current situation not writing a historical account.
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2018 02:09 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
No.

I would agree and that goes for guns as well.

Quote:
Who's implementing socialism? I'm talking about living under capitalism.

You don't really believe in capitalism, you have already spoken out against it on numerous occasions in this thread.

Quote:
That's because the organization gets worse every year — I'm commenting on the current situation not writing a historical account.

You mean they refuse to cave into your unreasonable gun wants.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2018 03:56 pm
@Zardoz,
Zardoz wrote:
The NRA is simply a puppet organization for the Gun Manufacturers Association and that has been very carefully documented by following the money.
It is actually the other way around. The gun manufacturers do what we say or we boycott them into bankruptcy.

Zardoz wrote:
The NRA has one reason to exist and that is to sell more guns for the gun manufacturers
The purpose of the NRA is to protect our civil liberties.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2018 03:57 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
they do promote marksmanship and gun safety; that was their sole mission before they got hijacked by the survivalist paranoids, white nationalist "flaggots", and libertarian Rambos.
This contempt that the left has for civil liberties is why it is so important to support Trump.

Trump will ensure that we remain a free country.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2018 03:59 pm
@Zardoz,
Zardoz wrote:
You realize that people will take the path of least resistance when given a chance. Guns are the path of least resistance to kill people. You can shoot somebody from across the room without getting your hands dirty. But killing someone with a knife you have to be up close and personal and you are going to be covered with blood and there is the possibility that the person you are attacking is stronger than you and he will take the knife away or bust you upside the head with an ash tray.
Given the fact that most murders are close-range one-on-one affairs, knives are plenty deadly if a gun is unavailable.

Zardoz wrote:
There are very few people killed with knives and they are in every household.
That's because killers choose guns if they are available. And since they are available, that is what killers choose.

The victims would be just as dead if guns were unavailable and they were killed with knives instead.

Zardoz wrote:
When somebody decides to kill someone, they don’t go buy a knife for a good reason.
They would certainly go buy a knife if guns were not available to them.

Zardoz wrote:
Guns are only in a third of American homes imagine the death toll if they were in 100% like knives. There would be 120,000 killed instead of just 40,000.
That is incorrect. Statistics are very clear that gun availability has little impact on homicide rates.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2018 04:00 pm
@Zardoz,
Zardoz wrote:
Assault weapons are designed to kill large numbers of enemy soldiers on a battlefield
That is incorrect. Assault weapons are just ordinary guns with a pistol grip added.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2018 04:01 pm
@Zardoz,
Zardoz wrote:
Think about it, a shooter in your children’s school shooting 48 kids a minute is that really what you want just so you can go bang, bang? Life always comes down to choices.
Pistol grips do not increase the lethality of guns in any way.
Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2018 09:26 pm
@oralloy,
Did you ever wonder why the Las Vegas shooter didn’t use any old semi-automatic rifle? He had his choice of weapons, but he decided on assault weapons to get the maximum number of kills. There is absolutely no doubt the Las Vegas shooter was an expert on what weapons would provide him with the maximum number of kills. Not all cars are designed to do the same thing, sports cars are designed to go fast but SUVs are designed to go off road. At a red light a sports car will leave a SUV behind, but a sports car won’t go thru a muddy field. Guns are designed like that some to hunt with, others for target practice but others are designed to kill large numbers of people at one sitting.
Zardoz
 
  2  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2018 09:39 pm
@oralloy,
So, you believe that there are no differences in guns that they are all just alike. If you were firing a semi-automatic rifle the kick back from the gun would make you want to stop firing it. The pistol grip gives you the option of firing it from waist level and strafing the enemy with hundreds of rounds it makes a very useful weapon of war but when it used on defenseless civilians, they don’t stand a chance.
 

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