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The Communist Origin of the Modern Conservative Movement VI

 
 
Zardoz
 
  4  
Reply Wed 11 Apr, 2018 08:19 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldiimo

There is a lot of false information published after a mass murder. Senator Rubio was responsible for some of the false information the day of the shooting but you are only as good as your sources. False information is one thing but deliberate propaganda is another. Does someone stand to gain by planting deliberate false information? If you were a school shooter would you want to take five 30 round clips or fifteen 10 round clips? Your object is to kill as many people as possible. You can buy five 30 rounds clips or fifteen 10 rounds clips to achieve your objective most school shooters would use 30 rounds clips. It is just common sense when something defies common sense something is wrong. I read some other articles about the shooting that didn’t list the capacity of the magazine but one did sighting the same woman as a source. A woman not involved in the investigation. It appears the police department decided not to release that information yet. Until the police decide to officially release the size of the magazines it is just here say from one woman.
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We all know it only takes one bullet to kill one person and that is a fact no matter which side of the argument you are on. A large capacity magazine, under the 1994 Assault Weapon ban, was any magazine that holds over 10 rounds and they were banned.
____________________________________________________
Trick question.

An internet article with a source who has nothing to do with the investigation is not proof.

You can’t believe everything you read any six-year-old can set up a site on the internet and claim it is a news site.

Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2018 09:43 am
@Zardoz,
Quote:
There is a lot of false information published after a mass murder.

True, but it's been 2 months. Where is the infomation on the magazines he used. I'm guessing that you couldn't find one stating 30 round magazines...

Quote:
Senator Rubio was responsible for some of the false information the day of the shooting but you are only as good as your sources.

I'm curious, which information are you referring to? If it was the day after, that is understandable, no one is really sure what is going on. It's been 2 months, we know much more now then we do the day after.

Quote:
False information is one thing but deliberate propaganda is another.

You are correct, the MSM and anti-gun left have been very busy at this since the shooting took place. CNN's 2 minutes of hate show was a good starting point.

Quote:
Does someone stand to gain by planting deliberate false information?

Oh, I don't know, maybe restricting guns and other such 2nd Amendment rights. Why else would they not talk about the size of the magazines the shooter used? Kinda of blow the "high capacity" argument out of the water if he only used 10 round mags.

Quote:
If you were a school shooter would you want to take five 30 round clips or fifteen 10 round clips? Your object is to kill as many people as possible. You can buy five 30 rounds clips or fifteen 10 rounds clips to achieve your objective most school shooters would use 30 rounds clips. It is just common sense when something defies common sense something is wrong. I read some other articles about the shooting that didn’t list the capacity of the magazine but one did sighting the same woman as a source. A woman not involved in the investigation. It appears the police department decided not to release that information yet. Until the police decide to officially release the size of the magazines it is just here say from one woman.

I refuse to speculate about what a school shooter will do, I don't think along those lines. You can speculate all you want to, but it shows your agenda and that is to ban "high capacity" mags. When it doesn't doesn't fit the narrative and support your agenda, you just don't mention it.

Quote:
We all know it only takes one bullet to kill one person

That actually isn't a fact. It depends on where that bullet hits them. In fact most people do not die from single gun shot wounds. A bullet has to hit something vital to kill. This is proven by the # of people shot per year and the # of people who actually die. Sorry, but you are wrong here.

Quote:
and that is a fact no matter which side of the argument you are on. A large capacity magazine, under the 1994 Assault Weapon ban, was any magazine that holds over 10 rounds and they were banned.

It was stupidly banned and had no basis in fact. Besides, what is a fact is that the 1994 gun ban expired in 2004 and there hasn't been a major increase in gun violence to match the increase in gun ownership. Once again facts don't agree with you. Gun murder for the last few years has been around 11,000, while gun ownership has increased. 250 million guns in the US and 11,000 murders with guns?
https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/
Quote:
Trick question.

An internet article with a source who has nothing to do with the investigation is not proof.

You can’t believe everything you read any six-year-old can set up a site on the internet and claim it is a news site.

Is the Miami Herald a website created and run by a 6 year old?
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article202486304.html
Quote:
Several state legislators who visited the school with crime-scene investigators said they learned from police that Cruz’s rifle was not top-of-the-line, perhaps explaining the malfunction.

The “weapon and bullets were not high quality and were breaking apart,” one of the legislators, state Sen. Lauren Book, D-Plantation, told the Herald.

Cruz went in with only 10-round magazines because larger clips would not fit in his duffel bag, Book said.

You can stop with the didn't use 10 round magazine argument, I've provided two sources that indicate he used to 10 round mag, you haven't provided any sources to back your point.
Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Thu 12 Apr, 2018 08:43 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo

I did not find a story about the FL shooting that said that the shooter used 30 round clips most of the stories don’t mention what size magazines were used. Evidently the police did not release that information. If they had it would have appeared in all of the articles written about the FL shooting. One woman is the source for both articles that say he used ten round magazines. She was not involved in any way in the investigation. It is possible that the shooter used ten round clips. I just want to hear it from an official source before I believe it.

____________________________________________________It was the day of the shooting and it was during a live broadcast. The remark was not important enough to remember an Internet search didn’t provide a transcript of his remarks. Rubio was too busy backing up from a parent of one of the dead children who made Rubio admit that it was the guns that were used to hunt their children and that it was the gun of choice of mass murders. Rubio prior position had been it was not the guns fault.
If you want to be a mass murder you need the correct tool and that is an assault weapon. You are not like Trump and believe none of these shootings took place that they were staged with actors to make guns look bad? Trump is a big fan of conspiracy theories no matter how wild. Guns have killed more people in America since 1968 then all of the wars in American history. The mass murders are not propaganda and that it was what lies at the center of the problem.

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Are the mass murders false information? No one that wants to ban the assault weapons will gain one cent but the gun manufacturers will make enough to give $300 million away in an election year. Only one side stands to gain from selling mass murder.
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You don’t have to speculate you just have to look at what magazines past mass murders used.

____________________________________________________
Most people are aware which area of the human body to place a fatal shot. Are you saying it takes 30 shots to kill someone? The reason a school shooter wants a 30 clip is to kill as many as he can. He is not planning on shooting one person 30 times. He is hunting humans and wants to kill the maximum number.
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 13 Apr, 2018 09:13 am
@Zardoz,
Quote:
I did not find a story about the FL shooting that said that the shooter used 30 round clips

You never will find a story that mentions the 30 round mags because 30 round mags were not used, that's the point of not mentioning them, the facts of the case don't fit their narritive. The media will never spend any time on a story that doesn't fit their narrative, it doesn't help push their propaganda.

Quote:
most of the stories don’t mention what size magazines were used.

That is where you are wrong. How else do we know which shooters have used 30 round magazines? If an AR type gun is used and there are no 30 round mags, you will never hear a lot of info about the mag size. The MSM and anti-gun groups have an agenda, and your refusal to except the facts shows it's working.

Quote:
Evidently the police did not release that information. If they had it would have appeared in all of the articles written about the FL shooting.

I'm pretty sure the info was released in one of the lying Sheriff's press conferences but isn't widely reported because he didn't use 30 round mags.

Quote:
One woman is the source for both articles that say he used ten round magazines. She was not involved in any way in the investigation. It is possible that the shooter used ten round clips. I just want to hear it from an official source before I believe it.

You won't hear about it again unless someone ask's directly. If 30 round mags were used, you would know about it. He didn't use them, so the news isn't going to bring it up again.

Quote:
It was the day of the shooting and it was during a live broadcast. The remark was not important enough to remember an Internet search didn’t provide a transcript of his remarks. Rubio was too busy backing up from a parent of one of the dead children who made Rubio admit that it was the guns that were used to hunt their children and that it was the gun of choice of mass murders. Rubio prior position had been it was not the guns fault.

You mean during that farce of a CNN town-hall, the 2 Minutes of Hate where people were calling the NRA and gun owners terrorists and baby killers? Rubio was in an impossible position and had the balls to show up.

All of those kids and parents should have been that angry at the Sheriff, that man failed those kids and then lied his ass off and blamed the guns for the actions of people.

Quote:
If you want to be a mass murder you need the correct tool and that is an assault weapon.

Wrong. There are enough mass shootings done with other guns that rifles account for less deaths per year than a handgun. You can't even tell me what an assault rifle is without turning to the media for their propaganda meaning. Can you tell me the difference between a Ruger Ranch Rifle and the Ar-15? Why is one banned and the other isn't?

Quote:
. You are not like Trump and believe none of these shootings took place that they were staged with actors to make guns look bad?

This is just a blatant lie. Trump has never said anything close to what you just said.

Quote:
Guns have killed more people in America since 1968 then all of the wars in American history.

More pointless anti-gun stats, if you are going to use propaganda, let me correct it for you. People have killed more people with guns... inanimate objects don't do things on their own and don't influence people. If you think they do, that is a mental disorder.
How many of those people were suicides? On average 60% of gun deaths per year are self-inflected, not murder or mass shootings. Before you say it will prevent suicides, we as in the US are not in the top 20 for suicide, but Japan is. How strict is their gun control?

Quote:
The mass murders are not propaganda and that it was what lies at the center of the problem.

Mass shootings are not propaganda, they are used as propaganda by the MSM and the anti-gun left. Their use to constantly push for more and more restrictions on the 2nd Amendment is propaganda and those who do so should be ashamed of themselves, but they won't. When they live by the "ends justify the means", they will feel no shame.

Quote:
Are the mass murders false information?

Don't be stupid and don't play me for stupid.

Quote:
No one that wants to ban the assault weapons will gain one cent but the gun manufacturers will make enough to give $300 million away in an election year.

This has nothing to do with money for the leftists, it's about power. Nothing more and nothing less. The profit of the gun manufactures doesn't play a part in this except to those who have a problem with profit in general. It's another propaganda tool in an attempt to turn the citizens against their own self interest and Constitutional rights. It's quite un-American to be honest.

If you don't think there are people not making money on the anti-gun side of this debate, then you are naive.

Quote:
You don’t have to speculate you just have to look at what magazines past mass murders used.

Did you know there are about the same # of people killed in Chicago per weekend as were killed in Parkland in one day? It has nothing to do with magazines and everything to do with people who want to kill.

Quote:
Most people are aware which area of the human body to place a fatal shot.

Doesn't mean they have the ability. Don't play games, there are more people injured per year than killed. The stats are not in your favor on this one.

Quote:
Are you saying it takes 30 shots to kill someone?

It can. Once again, I point to the # of people wounded in a shooting vs the # who die. The stats are not in your favor, no matter what BS you try and peddle.

Quote:
The reason a school shooter wants a 30 clip is to kill as many as he can. He is not planning on shooting one person 30 times. He is hunting humans and wants to kill the maximum number.

You can just stop now. I'm going to ask a few questions and my continued involvement in this "discussion" depends on it.

Have you ever shot a gun before?
Have you ever been in the military?
Have you ever been around people who have been shot before?
Have you ever seen any types of wounds other than gun shot wounds?

This has been fun, but your lack on information on this subject is pretty clear, it's un-informed. Your bias is clear, you don't like guns.


coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 13 Apr, 2018 12:20 pm
@Baldimo,
Quote:
This has been fun, but your lack on information on this subject is pretty clear, it's un-informed. Your bias is clear, you don't like guns.


I reached the same conclusion. A serious case of verbal diarrhea.
Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Fri 13 Apr, 2018 10:16 pm
@Zardoz,
Baldimo

Police departments routinely don’t release all the information they have before court even in cases where they have a confession. Confessions can be recanted or ruled inadmissible by the judge. They look for things only the shooter would know. I retired from the police department and even in the local paper you would be surprised how much totally false information is printed. It is bad enough that if you were aware what actually took place you would not recognize the story. One that took place when I first started working was the head of a local hospital was found dead in his basement. His family was out of town and he had dressed up like a woman and strangled himself during auto erotic asphyxiation. The news story did not report what actually happened. The size of magazines will be made public during the trial.
____________________________________________________

The only recent mass murder where the story that I remember reported the size of magazines was the Las Vegas shooter and he had enough guns to start his own gun store. More information is released during trials and that will be published on the Internet by a number of different sources sighting an ‘official” source.

____________________________________________________
The gun debate in Florida is especially intense and they targeted assault weapons and the age that you could buy them. The high capacity magazines should have been at the center of that debate. The fact that it wasn’t makes me wonder why it wasn’t. But the size of the magazines was the subject of the ban in Vermont.

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The police are simply not going to release everything they know. The important thing was the gun and we know it was an assault weapon and that was released that day.
___________________________________________________
Do you have any idea how many psychopaths are in America? If you assigned an FBI agent full time to everyone of them you would not have enough FBI agents to go around. In Florida the police could not take his assault weapon on suspicion he might do something. Any police officer that took the shooters assault weapon based on suspicion would have been fined $5,000. The NRA wants due process before guns are taken. So, the shooter would have been given a court date sometime in the future for a hearing to take his guns. Do you want to bet he would have killed all 17 before the court date? Our system of laws are designed for punishment after the fact. You can not be convicted of what you are thinking about doing or what you might do.
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Mass murders have no problem knowing what an assault weapon is all they have to is look at what type of gun the last mass murder used to slaughter school children. Assault weapons are designed to fire between 400 and 600 rounds a minute. All you need to know about assault weapons is which one has the highest kill rate in the last mass murder. Mass murder is the problem that we are trying to solve not domestic violence killings. I am sure any gun store will be able to tell you all you need to know if you just tell them what you want to do. Tell them you want to kill a deer and they will show you one type gun. Tell them you want to kill 50 teenagers at your local high school and they will show you an assault weapon.
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You have no idea the conspiracy theories that Trump believes in he is even been a regular guest on the King of conspiracy theories show. The moon landing never happened, the holocaust never happened, the kids at Parkland FL were just actors. Many of the leading lights on the right believed that and spread it all over the Internet.
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Tell me do you think that people that commit suicide are any less dead than those gunned down by mass murders? Somebody father, somebody sister, some one’s son they are all missed the same as others that are dead because of guns. Suicides are generally suffering from depression that is either temporary or can be treated but because a gun is in easy reach their disease is fatal. Guns make suicide easy. The old NRA standby guns don’t kill people, people kill people. Backhoe’ s don’t dig ditches people do but ban backhoes and fewer ditches will be dug.
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The gun manufacturers want to bury the stories of mass murder as quickly as possible. The first step of solving any problem is defining the problem. Once the problem is defined it is time to look at solutions. The second amendment was written in 1791 and cannot grant you a right to 200 years of future technology. Technology will not stand still in another 200 years guns may no longer fire bullets but use laser beams that would kill 200 in ten seconds but gun manufacturers would insist that a 1791 law says that America streets should be full of them. Maybe they will develop an assault weapon that fires 7 rounds at a time to clear crowds. The founding fathers could not possibly make a decision about things they could never even imagine. The second amendment is not an unlimited right to every weapon that can be invented.
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You have no solutions just more mass murder, nothing can be done. It is easy to say nothing can be done. The nut theory that every mass murder was done by a nut so you just have to accept that your children will be blown apart when they go school.
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It is not about power it is about mass murder. If no mass murders had taken place there would be no movement to ban assault weapons. When you flood the streets of America with weapons of war this is what you can expect.
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I don’t think you have any idea what self interest is. Those who own guns are far more likely to commit suicide, kill their wives and children, their children kill their sibling, to shoot their children who sneak into the house late and more likely to kill their neighbors. You have to be alive to have self-interest.
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Since 1968 the gun manufacturers have dumped billion in excess profits into campaign contributions. The gun manufacturers have corrupted our entire political system. The gun manufacturers make profit selling guns how do you make a profiting banning them?
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This movement has nothing to do with Chicago that has been going on for a long time. Parkland FL is on high school Chicago is a city of 9.5 million people to compare the two you would have the murder rate per hundred and when compared Parkland would be hundreds of times worse. Seventeen per 3,000 at Parkland in a city of 9.5 million two people were killed last weekend. The rate would be .000000021 for Chicago.
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You can’t claim credit for bad shots look at mob hits very seldom did anyone survive.
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Because someone is a bad shot does change anything there are those who would put a bullet right between the eyes on the first shot.
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Yes, I have shot a gun before.
Never been in the military the draft didn’t pull my number.
I have been around people that have been shot they leave a nasty scar.
I have seen someone killed at race track that was not in a car.

I think you are very confused because you think gun manufacturers interest are your interests they are not. You have been programed by the gun manufacturers. The gun manufacturers would be tickled pink if your children or grand children had their brains splattered all over the wall at school tomorrow because they know their sales would go through the roof. They use to have a saying in NASCAR win on Sunday sell cars on Monday. Thee gun manufacturers know mass murder on Tuesday sell guns on Wednesday.



Zardoz
 
  4  
Reply Fri 13 Apr, 2018 10:18 pm
@coldjoint,
Coldjiont

Ignorance is bliss. Do you have a Twitter account.
0 Replies
 
Zardoz
 
  4  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2018 09:00 pm
The gun manufacturers are going to spend a few hundred million on the upcoming elections. The gun manufacturers are running the same exact commercials back to back. Plenty of pictures of guns with the candidate swearing allegiance to the gun manufacturers for life in exchange for their money of course. Those who take the gun manufacturers money are the pro-school candidates who have sworn to block any and all efforts to stop the mass murders. They believe the gun manufacturers profits are far more important than anyone’s right to live. The commercials are pure propaganda that creates a straw boogieman to engender resentment toward Chicago or other soft targets. The commercial line is that the people in Chicago are trying to take the people in WV guns away. The gun manufacturers known damn well that the ban the assault weapons movement stated after the mass murders in Parkland Fl and spread across America from there. So why don’t the gun manufacturers make commercials saying that the teenagers in Parkland FL are trying to take your guns away? Simple if they said that they would remind voters that this is about mass murders and they don’t want the voters to be reminded of all the mass murders done with assault weapons in the last few years. The gun manufacturers don’t want you to think about all the teenager’s brains plastered all over school walls across America.

The gun manufacturers tried and true method is to try and scare the public that someone is going to take their guns away and it has worked in the past but now as the mass murders begin to stack up people are beginning to look at the victims of mass murder and change their mind that maybe removing the weapons of war from our streets is good thing. The public is finally beginning to see that the real victim here is not the gun manufacturers no matter how much they cry victim. Anytime you tell someone that you are going to take away something they own it upsets them but there is one and only one solution to mass murder in America and that is to take the weapons of war off the streets. Each year 3.6 million teenagers are eligible to vote and each year about 3.6 million- gun nuts die. It doesn’t take long to understand the American electorate is changing rapidly and all of these teenager’s that sat in school and every time they heard a fire cracker or car backfire they thought it might be school shooter and their time might be up. They will be a solid anti-gun vote their entire lifetime.

Our generation came up surrounded in guns. There were cap pistols, air rifles, BB guns, pellet guns, I even had a fifty-caliber machine that fired radioactive bullets that glowed in the dark. The cowboy and war movies were all about killing people. Guns became integrated into our character. We all pictured ourselves as the hero in the white hat shooting the bad guys. Some of us grew up an abandoned the stereotypes of youth but others remained locked in to a distant past with guns being a character crutch.

0 Replies
 
Zardoz
 
  4  
Reply Sun 15 Apr, 2018 08:24 pm
Primary elections will be held across America next month. There will be meet the candidate meetings all over America it is important that candidates be questioned in public as to how they stand on assault weapons any candidate that will not make a public commitment to banning assault weapons should not only be voted against but you should work against them in the election. High school students should be outside of each polling place with literature listing the school shootings and how many were killed and injured and type of assault weapon used by mass murder. Point out that candidate A has been in office for several years and has blocked any and all efforts to deal with the frequent mass murders and the reason he blocks any effort to solve the problem is he is being paid off by the gun manufacturers. As long as he stays in office the mass murders in our schools will continue.

In politics you must change one mind at a time. The NRA (gun manufacturers) issues a report card for politicians giving each politician a rating. Politicians are rated in a range from A+ to F in the Senate 52 Senators have A- or better rating and most are Republicans while most democrats in the senate have an F rating. The ban the assault weapons movement needs to issue similar report cards. The ban the assault weapon movement needs to turn those NRA A+ into a political negative not a positive. The ban the assault weapon movement has extensively used social media that needs to continue and be stepped up. People like to be on a winning side when they are exposed to good talking points it becomes contagious. Rome was not built overnight and one should not be discouraged if all the objectives are not met in the first year. This will take time the gun manufacturers are dug in.

0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 15 Apr, 2018 08:34 pm
Quote:
High school students should be outside of each polling place with literature listing the school shootings and how many were killed and injured and type of assault weapon used by mass murder. Point out that candidate A has been in office for several years and has blocked any and all efforts to deal with the frequent mass murders and the reason he blocks any effort to solve the problem is he is being paid off by the gun manufacturers. As long as he stays in office the mass murders in our schools will continue.


Why because you tell them to? You sound like a serious Communist yourself.
Baldimo
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2018 09:27 am
@Zardoz,
Quote:
Police departments routinely don’t release all the information they have before court even in cases where they have a confession. Confessions can be recanted or ruled inadmissible by the judge. They look for things only the shooter would know.

This is true, but in cases such as this, that usually isn't the case. The only mass shooting case I can think of where they have kept specific details quiet dealt with the Las Vegas shooting. Still not sure why they are keeping things so quiet unless they think he had help.

Quote:
I retired from the police department and even in the local paper you would be surprised how much totally false information is printed.

A retired cop? You talk about guns the way you do and you are a retired cop? I would think a police officer would know the proper names for things.

Quote:
The only recent mass murder where the story that I remember reported the size of magazines was the Las Vegas shooter and he had enough guns to start his own gun store. More information is released during trials and that will be published on the Internet by a number of different sources sighting an ‘official” source.

They have listed the types of guns and size of the magazines in all mass shootings within a few weeks to a month. We know this because all the anti-gun people talk about the equipment the person used and not the reasons for the shooting, unless the person is right leaning, then we know just about everything.

Quote:
The gun debate in Florida is especially intense and they targeted assault weapons and the age that you could buy them.

I'll agree with the age limit, we should be increasing the age of an adult to 21.

Quote:
The high capacity magazines should have been at the center of that debate. The fact that it wasn’t makes me wonder why it wasn’t. But the size of the magazines was the subject of the ban in Vermont.

What is an average capacity magazine, how many rounds do they hold? How about a low capacity magazine? Lets flesh out those definitions first.

Quote:
The police are simply not going to release everything they know. The important thing was the gun and we know it was an assault weapon and that was released that day.

We know the magazine size, it isn't pushed because it doesn't fit the narrative. He used 10 round magazines.

Quote:
Do you have any idea how many psychopaths are in America? If you assigned an FBI agent full time to everyone of them you would not have enough FBI agents to go around. In Florida the police could not take his assault weapon on suspicion he might do something. Any police officer that took the shooters assault weapon based on suspicion would have been fined $5,000. The NRA wants due process before guns are taken. So, the shooter would have been given a court date sometime in the future for a hearing to take his guns. Do you want to bet he would have killed all 17 before the court date? Our system of laws are designed for punishment after the fact. You can not be convicted of what you are thinking about doing or what you might do.

There were enough reports from enough people that he could have been taken into custody for questioning under FL law. The Sheriff failed and people died.

Quote:
I am sure any gun store will be able to tell you all you need to know if you just tell them what you want to do. Tell them you want to kill a deer and they will show you one type gun. Tell them you want to kill 50 teenagers at your local high school and they will show you an assault weapon.

This is the type of wording that makes me question your claim of being a retired police officer. It's your bias that gives your false claim away. I don't think you have ever stepped foot in a gun store or were a cop. A cop would know such things would have to be reported.

Quote:
You have no solutions just more mass murder, nothing can be done. It is easy to say nothing can be done. The nut theory that every mass murder was done by a nut so you just have to accept that your children will be blown apart when they go school.

Most of these mass shootings have been done by people who showed signs they were not right in the head. I don't think we have come across someone yet, besides the Las Vegas shooter, who didn't show signs of not having a full deck. There are states which have laws in place to stop these people. The only laws you anti-gun people keep coming up with is ban the AR-15 platform and what you call "high capacity" magazines. That's it. We already have background checks and other such laws.

Quote:
It is not about power it is about mass murder. If no mass murders had taken place there would be no movement to ban assault weapons. When you flood the streets of America with weapons of war this is what you can expect.

It is about power, nothing less nothing more. When one ban or law doesn't work, you will keep pushing until the 2nd Amendment is toast. You and your ilk's motives are clear.

Quote:
I don’t think you have any idea what self interest is. Those who own guns are far more likely to commit suicide, kill their wives and children, their children kill their sibling, to shoot their children who sneak into the house late and more likely to kill their neighbors. You have to be alive to have self-interest.

You want me and others to give up our self interests for the interests of others, I don't think you understand what Liberty is. If people who owned guns were as violent as you claim, there would be far more gun deaths in the US. The stats are not in your favor.

Quote:
Since 1968 the gun manufacturers have dumped billion in excess profits into campaign contributions. The gun manufacturers have corrupted our entire political system. The gun manufacturers make profit selling guns how do you make a profiting banning them?

Proof?

Quote:
This movement has nothing to do with Chicago that has been going on for a long time. Parkland FL is on high school Chicago is a city of 9.5 million people to compare the two you would have the murder rate per hundred and when compared Parkland would be hundreds of times worse. Seventeen per 3,000 at Parkland in a city of 9.5 million two people were killed last weekend. The rate would be .000000021 for Chicago.

The vast majority of the deaths in Chicago are in 2 parts of the city, the South Side and the West Side. A Parkland takes place in Chicago every month but since it's blacks killing blacks, you don't care.

Quote:
You can’t claim credit for bad shots look at mob hits very seldom did anyone survive.

Really, mob hits, that's your comparison?

Quote:
Yes, I have shot a gun before.
Never been in the military the draft didn’t pull my number.
I have been around people that have been shot they leave a nasty scar.
I have seen someone killed at race track that was not in a car.

So you have shot a gun, what kind, grand pappies shot gun? Have you ever shot any type of semti-automatic rifle, it doesn't have to be the AR platform, just a gun that fires a single bullet with each trigger pull?

I was in the Army and did a year in Afghanistan, I've seen bullet holes and shrapnel holes, limbs missing and all sorts of nasty ****, from what I've seen, I'd rather be shot.

Quote:
I think you are very confused because you think gun manufacturers interest are your interests they are not.

I've never said or thought any such things. Any companies interests are making money, if you think differently you are naive.

Quote:
You have been programed by the gun manufacturers. The gun manufacturers would be tickled pink if your children or grand children had their brains splattered all over the wall at school tomorrow because they know their sales would go through the roof. They use to have a saying in NASCAR win on Sunday sell cars on Monday. Thee gun manufacturers know mass murder on Tuesday sell guns on Wednesday.

Your anti-gun bias is showing again. I'm not even going to address this drivel masked as concern.
0 Replies
 
Zardoz
 
  4  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2018 10:31 pm
@coldjoint,
Baldimo

There was more information released about the Las Vegas shooting than any I can remember including actual pictures of the hotel room full of guns. Early on we knew that he had used bump stocks to make his assault
weapons fully automatic. There is a picture of at least 5 of the shooters 24 weapons. An arrest has been made in the Las Vegas shooting. They have arrested an arms dealer who supplied the shooter with 720 rounds of armor-piercing bullets. The arms dealers, Douglas Haig’s, finger prints were found on one of the box of ammunition. He is charged with the manufacture and sale of armor-piercing bullets. The shooter also had tracer rounds that he didn’t use. They did have a second person of interest but it was a dead end. The psychopath that do the shooting seldom have an accomplice.
___________________________________________________
I retired from police department and even have distinguished service award from the chief of police but I was not a sworn officer. Many people who work in a police department are not sworn officers. I enforced laws but my area of law was specialized, it was contractor law. I didn’t write $5 parking tickets mine tickets started at $500 and went up from there. I was transferred to police department and I went kicking and screaming even though I made extra $15,000 a year.
____________________________________________________________________________________
They say “none are so blind as those who refuse to see.” It is not that we don’t know the reason these mass murders happen it is that we refuse to see. I just watched the program on ID about a budding serial killer when asked why he killed them. He said, that he wanted to make it clear he did not hate prostitutes they were just easy to get in the car. He simply killed because “he wanted to.” Until we understand that the mass murder will continue. We have to come to realization that some people are driven to kill by their personality traits. You have to take control of what you can control. The magazines are not the focus of most news stories the assault weapons are. Most mass murders are going to take advantage of the high capacity clips to make their assault weapon more deadly.
___________________________________________________
Actually, we now know that human brain does not mature until 25 before that impulse control leads to a lot of problems. Raising the age of gun ownership to 25 would help cut the murder rate but not stop most mass murders. Mass murder is not impulse killing mass murders are very carefully planned.
_________________________________________________
Since any magazine that hold more than 10 rounds is considered high capacity the average should be less than that. I don’t think I have ever heard of a magazine being referred to low capacity.

I will concede that it is possible that FL shooter could have used 10 round clips but I will wait until someone involved in the investigation confirms the size of magazine used in the shooting.
____________________________________________________
You can question anybody but you could not arrest him or take his assault weapon away under FL law at the time. The new law made after the mass murder would now allow them to take his assault weapon but would not stop him from buying another at a gun show. The laws that allow you to take someone’s guns if they are acting out are called red flag laws and the gun manufacturers hate them.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
I never claimed to be a police officer I said I retried from the police department there are many civilian employees who work at any police department. You simply made an assumption without thinking.
__________________________________________________
I have been in many gun stores I also enforced licensing and other laws that gun stores violated. I even owned a shot gun for a few years before realized how much danger it placed my family in. We had one gun store in town that had placed large bill boards close to campus on his rental properties featuring assault weapons. It took a few thousand dollars in tickets to convince him push assault weapons to teenagers was a bad idea.
_________________________________________________
Have you ever walked down a downtown street in a large city? You will meet people talking to themselves or saying the world will end tomorrow. Vets that are still fighting the Vietnam war. As a society we use to warehouse a large number of people but a court case put an end to that. Now the standard is that you have to “prove” that someone is a danger to themselves or others in a court of law and that is a high standard of prof. If your neighbor said I am going to kill you he would not be locked up. Just because somebody says something or acts out of the ordinary does not mean that they will be locked up. Just as the legal system would whether err on the side innocents they would rather err on the side freedom for the mentally ill and they are not the ones who are doing the mass murders anyway. Most of those who are mentally ill are lucky to find a warm place to sleep at night. There is two elements to every mass murder the shooter and the tools necessary to do the mass murders. We can only control one of those.
____________________________________________________
Yours is the gun manufacturers’ argument if any controls are passed on guns of any kind it is a slippery slope and all guns will be gone forever. By using this argument, it is way to prevent any gun controls of any kind to ever to be put in place. This is like the argument that led to the death 58,220 Americans if Vietnam fell the whole world would be communist it was an invalid argument that cost many their lives.
____________________________________________________
The sky did not fall during the 1994 assault weapon ban people continued to buy and sell guns and no other guns were banned during the time the assault weapon ban was in place.
____________________________________________________
You would be like that poor guy who can no longer yell fire in crowded theater that was his interest. If we put your interest in firing assault weapons on one side of scale and the lives of the murder teenagers in FL on the other side the scale how do you think Solomon would resolve the conflict? Anytime more people are killed in American with guns since than all the wars American has ever been involved in it is a national disgrace.
____________________________________________________
If you took an average of 30,000 deaths by gun a year for the 50 years since 1968 and that is a low figure you would have 1,500,000 guns deaths only 416,800 during WWII.
____________________________________________________
There is a huge difference between a city of 9.5 million and a high school of 3,000. Only tow killings in a city of 9.5 million is extremely low.
___________________________________________________
The mob gave us murder incorporated some members of the mob participated in over 100 killings. The victims were shot precisely. One gangster saw that Willie Sutton had been turned in by a retail worker he dispatched one of his goons to kill the rat. The victim was shot once in both eyes to send the message he was a rat.
____________________________________________________
I have fired nothing but shot guns and pistols.

I find people talk a good fight but when it comes down to the brass tacks and nails they are quick to change their mind.
____________________________________________________
The gun manufacturers are in the business of making killing people easy that is how they make their money. The interest of gun manufacturers are diametrically opposed to every American who wants to stay alive. The fact that the gun manufacturers’ propaganda is so readily accepted by a good portion of the population without even thinking about it is frightening.
The NRA spokesman got up at the CNN meeting and said that the Media loved mass murders because their ratings went up but funny she never mentions that guns sales go up after a mass murder. She was so obnoxious that she was the first woman in 200 years that the American people wanted to burn at the stake.
Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2018 10:36 pm
@coldjoint,
Coldjoint

If they are going to play the game they need to know the rules.

You must be a John Bircher they believed that President Eisenhower was a communist.
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2018 11:08 pm
@Zardoz,
Quote:
President Eisenhower was a communist.


The Left are acting like "Mc Carthyites". Have you been following the Trump investigation?
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 17 Apr, 2018 10:47 am
@Zardoz,
Quote:
There was more information released about the Las Vegas shooting than any I can remember including actual pictures of the hotel room full of guns. Early on we knew that he had used bump stocks to make his assault

We only saw the pictures because they were leaked to the media, they were not released by investigators.

Quote:
The psychopath that do the shooting seldom have an accomplice.

Is it your claim that the guy they arrested was his accomplice? I didn't see that mentioned in any of the news releases. We will have to see how this case proceeds but I don't think this guy was in on it and knew nothing about the shooters intentions.

Quote:
I retired from police department and even have distinguished service award from the chief of police but I was not a sworn officer. I enforced laws but my area of law was specialized, it was contractor law.

So you didn't carry a gun and received no training in carrying a gun. That's nice to know, my father was a city cop at one point and then a federal cop, he carried a gun and stopped actual bad guys. I'll take his stance on crime over yours any day.

Quote:
They say “none are so blind as those who refuse to see.” It is not that we don’t know the reason these mass murders happen it is that we refuse to see. I just watched the program on ID about a budding serial killer when asked why he killed them. He said, that he wanted to make it clear he did not hate prostitutes they were just easy to get in the car. He simply killed because “he wanted to.” Until we understand that the mass murder will continue.

Not sure how you are relating a serial killer to a mass shooter but we won't understand these people and we can't stop them. Your serial killer proves my point. It's funny that you watch this channel and still think a gun is the issue. My wife and I have ID on pretty much all the time and we understand that evil is evil, the tool they use doesn't make them evil and the tool doesn't make them do their evil, it's just a tool. Gun, knife, hammer, statue or a high heel, these have all been used to kill people.

Quote:
Actually, we now know that human brain does not mature until 25 before that impulse control leads to a lot of problems.

If that is the case, then how did our ancestors ever survive, to them 30 or 40 was old age. I think our modern day maturity is guided by how soft our societies have become, before people had to mature much quicker as there was no living with mom and dad until you were 25, by then you were already considered in mid-life and had a place of your own a spouse with a few kids who were already helping with chores by the time they were old enough to stand. Many of the Founding Fathers were between their mid 20's and late 30's when they started the Revolution and founded a nation. Kids today couldn't handle half of what they did, you know safe spaces and all...

Quote:
Raising the age of gun ownership to 25 would help cut the murder rate but not stop most mass murders.

You don't have any proof that this would be the case. It might have an effect on some types of crime, but murder wouldn't be one of them. Gang shootings are a prime example as a majority of those are done with illegally obtained guns anyways. An age limit wouldn't stop them and neither would increased background checks.

Quote:
Since any magazine that hold more than 10 rounds is considered high capacity the average should be less than that. I don’t think I have ever heard of a magazine being referred to low capacity.

That's the problem. Who defined "high capacity" and what did they base that measurement on? Did they base it on the average magazine capacity used on that type of gun, or did they just pull a number out of their hats and go with it? The AR platform aside, the average semi-auto hand gun has a standard, I base standard on what the manufacture has built the gun to actually hold, of 15 round, with some having 16-18 depending on the size of the gun. I have 2 semi-auto handguns by the same company, one is full frame and the other is a compact frame. The full frame holds 16 rounds and the compact holds 10 rounds.

Quote:
I will concede that it is possible that FL shooter could have used 10 round clips but I will wait until someone involved in the investigation confirms the size of magazine used in the shooting.

Fair enough

Quote:
You can question anybody but you could not arrest him or take his assault weapon away under FL law at the time. The new law made after the mass murder would now allow them to take his assault weapon but would not stop him from buying another at a gun show.

This news article from FL disagree's with you want what the police could have done in relation to the shooter prior to the shooting.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article201887629.html

Quote:
The laws that allow you to take someone’s guns if they are acting out are called red flag laws and the gun manufacturers hate them.

You really need to drop the BS about the gun manufactures. You are really mad at the NRA, which is not the gun lobby, they support people like me and our 2nd Amendment rights. If you want to complain about the real gun lobby, you should be talking about NSSF, National Sports Shooting Foundation, they work for the gun manufactures.

Quote:
I never claimed to be a police officer I said I retried from the police department there are many civilian employees who work at any police department. You simply made an assumption without thinking.

Don't scam me. My father is a retired police officer and only people like you who want to impress people make such ambiguous statements. "I retired from the Police Dept" gives an impression unless you say, "I was a civilian employee who retired from the PD." You waited until this post to define your retirement, go con someone else.

Quote:
I have been in many gun stores I also enforced licensing and other laws that gun stores violated. I even owned a shot gun for a few years before realized how much danger it placed my family in. We had one gun store in town that had placed large bill boards close to campus on his rental properties featuring assault weapons. It took a few thousand dollars in tickets to convince him push assault weapons to teenagers was a bad idea.

You are a bureaucrat who uses the rule of law to enforce your own since of "right". Was it actually illegal for him to have that sign up, or did you issue "annoyance tickets" to enforce your own standards. You sound like the last person who should have been given any power to effect someone's lively hood. A bully with a ticket book.



The rest of your post is rehashed lies and misconceptions about those you don't like, I won't bother to address them. What's clear is you don't actually have an understand of half the crap we are talking about. You have read to anti-gun talking points, which don't actually contain real facts. The fact you keep talking about 30k gun deaths as if they were all mass shootings when the fact is 60% of those gun deaths are self inflected, it leaves a majority of your anti-gun arguments on the floor as useless. The slippery slope of gun control is a very real thing and several cities have proposed and could pass registration law and or confiscation laws, like in Deerfield IL and Boulder CO. Don't say no one wants to take the guns away, you would be lying.
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 17 Apr, 2018 11:00 am
To prove my point about people wanting to take guns, here is an article from after the VA Tech shooting:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/04/30/shootings

Quote:
Rural America is hunting country, and hunters need rifles and shotguns—with proper licensing, we’ll live with the risk. There is no reason that any private citizen in a democracy should own a handgun. At some point, that simple truth will register. Until it does, phones will ring for dead children, and parents will be told not to ask why. ♦


That's right, no one needs to own a hang gun and they same the same thing about the AR platform. So don't say no one wants to take guns away, there has been a push from the anti-gun crowd for years to get rid of every type of gun except those they approve of.
Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Tue 17 Apr, 2018 07:17 pm
@coldjoint,
Coldjoint

There is nothing like a witch hunt where you actually find a witch and that witch, Trump is wearing a black pointed hat with word “suckers” written across the front of it. Trump left absolutely no doubt that he was guilty of treason during a campaign speech in FL where he called on the Russian, a hostile foreign power, to break into the Democratic Nation headquarters and steal Clinton’s e-mail and publish. Trump should be convicted of treason and hung on the White House lawn. When they schedule his hanging let me know I want to be there.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 17 Apr, 2018 07:24 pm
@Zardoz,
Quote:
where he called on the Russian, a hostile foreign power, to break into the Democratic Nation headquarters and steal Clinton’s e-mail and publish


It was a joke, like your tired rhetoric. You still sound like a communist.
0 Replies
 
Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Tue 17 Apr, 2018 10:10 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo

There was some question at the time of how the video of the inside of the hotel room in Las Vegas was obtained but news outlets would be willing to pay major bucks and not all policemen are honest. Many years ago, in town we had several commercial buildings broke into when the culprits were caught they ended up being policemen. One of the policemen I knew told me his training officer explained to him how each type of commercial could be broke into. He never knew how his training officer got his expertise. The picture I saw last night was not video it was a high quality still of the assault weapons on the hotel room floor.
____________________________________________________
The arms dealer was charged with manufacture and sale of armor piercing bullets because that ammunition is illegal I think this will make him an accessory to crime even though he was unaware what the bullets were going to be used for. There were also tracer bullets and none of the ammunition was used by the shooter. It is likely that he will make a deal and take a plea to a lesser charge.
___________________________________________________
Many policemen have taken a stand against assault weapons and especially those who have been involved shooting where the criminals had assault weapons. The subject of carrying a gun had come up and the Fire Marshalls did actually start carrying guns but I was against carrying a gun. I would often shut down a construction site with 50 angry men on the site. I couldn’t shoot all of them without an assault weapon. As cop, imagine yourself in a dark alley facing criminals with assault weapons.

__________________________________________________________________________________
I spent 10 years reading true crime books and watch ID at least 3 hours a day. My original interest was to understand what made a serial killer want to kill. We now know that a child that kills and tortures animals is likely to grow up to be a serial killer. They are psychopaths and lack empathy. They enjoy torturing and killing people. They lack the ability to put themselves in the other person shoes. Mass murders are also psychopaths and they both have one big thing in common they both enjoy the act of killing. Evil is more of a biblical concept where the devil made you do it. We have to get away from that concept that absolves the criminal of responsibility somewhat. We must realize that when given the choice some people will chose to kill. Some killer even climax while they are the act of killing and they take trophies from their victims so they can relive the kill. They are born to kill. A mass murder would continue to kill also but they don’t generally get away. Statues, high heels and hammers are the exception, guns are the rule.
_________________________________________________________________________________
Children can survive despite the fact their bodies have not matured. Part of a woman’s skeleton continues to grow until 25. Corner look for grow plates during autopsies to determine the age of the victim. Without impulse control those under the age of 25 are far more likely to draw their weapon and shoot someone. They simply don’t think ahead to consequences. With an fMRI you can actually see which areas of the brain have not matured. The founding fathers after 25 were as good as they would ever be. ___________________________________________________________________________________
No solution will ever stop all murders the best we can hope is reduce the number. We need to make regulations that will lower the murder rate. You will never save everybody but we might save the high school kid that will cure cancer. The gun control regulations put in place in cities like New York and Chicago are undermined by the fact that guns can obtained out of their jurisdiction so we don’t they would work if they were in effect across the country.
___________________________________________________
The 1994 Assault weapon ban defined a high capacity magazine as any magazine that held more than 10 rounds. If someone broke in your house you should be able to take him down with ten rounds. Police officers only carried six round revolvers for years. All of law comes down to what would a reasonable man do. I think they looked at what they thought would be reasonable. This did not apply to hand guns it is the assault weapons it applies to.
___________________________________________________
More Monday morning quarterbacking it is easy to step forward after the fact. Hindsight is always 20/20. Like it or not time was on Cruz side. Let’s say the police decide he was a danger to himself. Cruz gets hospitalized for 48 hours. If after that point the state wants to keep him hospitalized they have to prove to a judge that he is mentally ill. Let’s say Cruz does a few months long enough to get his $100,000 inheritance. One report says the reason Cruz did not kill more was that his gun jammed. Cruz bought a cheap assault weapon and cheap ammunition. If he had waited for inheritance he could have bought the best assault weapons and the best ammunition and he might have broke the record for the number of kills. If history has taught anything it is that anyone can kill anyone if they are determined.
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The NRA is simply a front for the gun manufacturers and it is such a nice racket that the cigarette manufacturers tried to copy it by setting up a smoker’s association to defend the cigarette manufacturers. The gun manufacturer own the NRA just like they own the politicians if you take their money they own you. The NSSF doesn’t get a fraction of the $100s of million that go to the NRA. How many politicians did the NSSF give $50 million to in the last election?
___________________________________________________________________________________

There is nothing more truthful. If I said I retired from the fire department it would be a lie. It did not impress me when the mayor told me he was going to transfer me to the police department. We went round and round about it and he told me we would have another conversation which he avoided. Then I went over his head to city council who had to do a budget minor adjustment to complete the transfer. One of the councilmen later apologized and admitted they had made a mistake. I could have taken a job in police when I was hired but I did not want to be there. It might impress you but it sure didn’t impress me.
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I also enforced zoning laws and it is illegal to put bill board signs up on the side of residential buildings no matter what they advertise. Laws are made for reason signs are very tightly regulated by size and placement. Imagine a town with 400 sq ft signs on the side of every house.
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You are saying if you shoot yourself while cleaning your gun it doesn’t count. Sorry a dead person killed with a gun is a dead person killed with a gun no matter who shoots them. The 1994 assault weapon ban disproves the slippery slope theory. If it were valid you should be able to list all the guns banned since. Deerfield did not ban all guns just assault weapons.
Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Tue 17 Apr, 2018 10:17 pm
@Baldimo,
In America everyone is entitled to their opinion. The VA Tech shooting was done by handguns after the shooter chained the doors shut. I can see where the people that had to carry the bodies out and clean up the mess would feel that way. I believe that assault weapons will be banned but I don’t think there is a chance in hell that hand guns will ever be banned.
0 Replies
 
 

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