1
   

The Lack Of Healthcare Coverage

 
 
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Sep, 2007 02:20 pm
@aaronssongs,
aaronssongs;37303 wrote:
Thanks for that wvpeach...the people saying otherwise are the epitome of godlessness.


For the record, I disagree.:FU1::liar::liar::liar::liar::FU1:
wvpeach
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Sep, 2007 04:58 pm
@aaronssongs,
aaronssongs;37303 wrote:
Thanks for that wvpeach...the people saying otherwise are the epitome of godlessness.



They certainly will have to explain why they are willing to deny others health care when they meet their makers.

I don't think it will be pretty when the time comes.
Red cv
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Sep, 2007 05:11 pm
@FedUpAmerican,
The problem with Socialized Medicine is the socialism part, Unionized workers raising the cost of medical care. Social policies only an idiot and it's assitant could think up, making administrative assistants more powerful that the health care worker. It's a nightmare of red tape and incompetance, the unions have taken control of Canadian Hospitals and they are responsible for our third world conditions. Decertify the Unions and get them out of the hospitals and give control back to the health care workers who have the knowledge and experience to run the hospitals. Having a BA isn't exactly a positive when working as a Hospital Administrator.

Aarronssong; my husband works for EHS and frankly it's not the health care workers it's the administrators who should be hung by their fingernails until they agree to quit. Paper pushing socialist bullies. I can't wait for Private Health Care to become available in Canada, I can afford to pay for private care I can't afford to place my life in the hands of socialized care.

Socialized Medicine is doomed to fail, it trips over it'self to aide the patient in areas that the patient should be taking control.
kmchugh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Sep, 2007 07:21 pm
@Red cv,
FedUpAmerican;37201 wrote:
You cited opinions not facts. Let's see you sources then we'll talk.

Folks like who? Are you presuming that you know ANYTHING about me???

You claim to be a "professional" in the healthcare industry. In what capacity?

Bedpan cleansing?


Facts:

-Number of uninsured Americans: 41,500,000 (Your fact)
-US Population: 302,878,403 (Census Bureau)

-41,500,000/302878,403 = 0.137 = approx 14% (mathematics fact)

-100% - 14% = 86% (mathematics fact)

So, I guess I was wrong. 86%, not 85% of the population has health care coverage.

-Fact: US law does not permit any hospital to turn away patients based on inability to pay. All must be treated. (Legal fact, posted on the wall of every Emergency Room and Obstetrical department in every hospital in the US.)

-Fact: The Medicare prescription drug benefit offers many different formulae and options from which a beneficiary must select one program. (Medicare website)

-Fact: Many seniors found the Medicare drug benefit "unduly complicated" and confusing. (Senior Journal)

-Fact: Initial cost estimates of the prescription drug plan were $534 billion over 10 years. Latest estimates show that the cost of this program over 10 years will actually be $1.2 trillion, more than twice the initial estimates (Washington Post)

So, as you see, my post was not based on opinion, but rather on well supported facts. Kinda hard to argue mathematics.

I particularly love your last stupidity. You really set yourself up for a fall here. No, my capacity is not in “bedpan cleansing.” (Pretty snotty, elitist attitude you have there, by the way. You have something against those who “lower” themselves to clean others when sick?) No, I am a Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist. I have a Master’s Degree in Nurse Anesthesia, and I do surgical and obstetric anesthesia for a living.

And you? Host of a “popular radio show?” Got your own ham radio set, huh?
kmchugh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Sep, 2007 07:26 pm
@aaronssongs,
aaronssongs;37303 wrote:
Thanks for that wvpeach...the people saying otherwise are the epitome of godlessness.

Ah, the other fallback position when your "plan" is demonstrated to be untenable.

"You are godless."

For the record, I am not at all "godless." But, in our nation, it's no business of yours what my "state of godlieness" is. Neither is a state of godlieness relevant in the passage of law or the levying of taxes.

True godlessness comes from those who will not see that their selfish desire for either personal gain at others' expense, or for personal aggrandizment will harm the vast majority of the population. What was that figure again? Oh, yes. 86%
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Sep, 2007 08:09 pm
@wvpeach,
wvpeach;37345 wrote:
They certainly will have to explain why they are willing to deny others health care when they meet their makers.

I don't think it will be pretty when the time comes.


Yeah....and Socialist healthcare providers will have to explain why they botched up nationalized healthcare such that millions died needlessly. Big Brother isn't God. He's just another enfeebled man.
0 Replies
 
aaronssongs
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Sep, 2007 08:27 pm
@Red cv,
Red;37350 wrote:
The problem with Socialized Medicine is the socialism part, Unionized workers raising the cost of medical care. Social policies only an idiot and it's assitant could think up, making administrative assistants more powerful that the health care worker. It's a nightmare of red tape and incompetance, the unions have taken control of Canadian Hospitals and they are responsible for our third world conditions. Decertify the Unions and get them out of the hospitals and give control back to the health care workers who have the knowledge and experience to run the hospitals. Having a BA isn't exactly a positive when working as a Hospital Administrator.

Aarronssong; my husband works for EHS and frankly it's not the health care workers it's the administrators who should be hung by their fingernails until they agree to quit. Paper pushing socialist bullies. I can't wait for Private Health Care to become available in Canada, I can afford to pay for private care I can't afford to place my life in the hands of socialized care.

Socialized Medicine is doomed to fail, it trips over it'self to aide the patient in areas that the patient should be taking control.


Whatever...and what is the matter with your eyesight? why did you miss the "s" at the end of my ID...it's Aaronssongs, re
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Sep, 2007 08:43 pm
@aaronssongs,
aaronssongs;37381 wrote:
Whatever...and what is the matter with your eyesight? why did you miss the "s" at the end of my ID...it's Aaronssongs, re


Aaron, do you find this offensive?

:FU2::FU2::FU2::FU2::FU2::FU2:
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Sep, 2007 08:48 pm
@FedUpAmerican,
:banghead::bangin::whipping::alcoholic::leghumper:

Big Brother,

Please wipe my bottom. Feed me. Give me a house, a job, a woman, kids and a pension. Tell me what to think, do, say, feel. Own me, like a tool. I'm your stooge. I'm Needy Man, the Marxist Bum. My brain is smaller than my penis, and has 'GOVERNMENT PROPERTY' stamped on it. My entire psyche is rooted in welfare-dependency. I have no sense of self, if you don't give me one.
aaronssongs
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Sep, 2007 09:05 pm
@kmchugh,
kmchugh;37373 wrote:
Ah, the other fallback position when your "plan" is demonstrated to be untenable.

"You are godless."

For the record, I am not at all "godless." But, in our nation, it's no business of yours what my "state of godlieness" is. Neither is a state of godlieness relevant in the passage of law or the levying of taxes.

True godlessness comes from those who will not see that their selfish desire for either personal gain at others' expense, or for personal aggrandizment will harm the vast majority of the population. What was that figure again? Oh, yes. 86%


"Untenable" because you said so??? Oh, contraire ...it is my business if you are purporting an ideology contrary to my own, which, if unattended could become law....a "bad law". I have as much say so about how money is spent as you do...

Perhaps you've forgotten the example of Christ, God on Earth....he gave to the poor, the outcast, the dregs of humanity...those were his sheep...and I see nothing like Him in you and your crew...

""Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these My brethren, ye have done it unto Me."
That should dictate policy concerning healthcare in the US or anyplace else...otherwise listen to false prophets. Can I get a witness?
aaronssongs
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Sep, 2007 09:08 pm
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;37386 wrote:
Aaron, do you find this offensive?

:FU2::FU2::FU2::FU2::FU2::FU2:


Spell the name right. And to answer your question, in a word...no
But some are offended by any and everything. Why don't you focus on a topic, and raise up off of me.
FedUpAmerican
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Sep, 2007 11:54 pm
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;37387 wrote:
:banghead::bangin::whipping::alcoholic::leghumper:

Big Brother,

Please wipe my bottom. Feed me. Give me a house, a job, a woman, kids and a pension. Tell me what to think, do, say, feel. Own me, like a tool. I'm your stooge. I'm Needy Man, the Marxist Bum. My brain is smaller than my penis, and has 'GOVERNMENT PROPERTY' stamped on it. My entire psyche is rooted in welfare-dependency. I have no sense of self, if you don't give me one.



Pinhead you are the epitome of whats wrong with America today. Your kind needs to be exterminated. You and you boy toy "big d". LOL!
92b16vx
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Sep, 2007 02:26 am
@FedUpAmerican,
FedUpAmerican;37201 wrote:

You cited opinions not facts. Let's see you sources then we'll talk.


kmchugh wrote:


Facts:

-Number of uninsured Americans: 41,500,000 (Your fact)
-US Population: 302,878,403 (Census Bureau)

-41,500,000/302878,403 = 0.137 = approx 14% (mathematics fact)

-100% - 14% = 86% (mathematics fact)

So, I guess I was wrong. 86%, not 85% of the population has health care coverage.

-Fact: US law does not permit any hospital to turn away patients based on inability to pay. All must be treated. (Legal fact, posted on the wall of every Emergency Room and Obstetrical department in every hospital in the US.)

-Fact: The Medicare prescription drug benefit offers many different formulae and options from which a beneficiary must select one program. (Medicare website)

-Fact: Many seniors found the Medicare drug benefit "unduly complicated" and confusing. (Senior Journal)

-Fact: Initial cost estimates of the prescription drug plan were $534 billion over 10 years. Latest estimates show that the cost of this program over 10 years will actually be $1.2 trillion, more than twice the initial estimates (Washington Post)



http://www.glocktalk.com/images/smilies/popcorn1.gif
0 Replies
 
kmchugh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Sep, 2007 04:41 am
@FedUpAmerican,
aaronssongs;37389 wrote:
"Untenable" because you said so??? Oh, contraire ...it is my business if you are purporting an ideology contrary to my own, which, if unattended could become law....a "bad law". I have as much say so about how money is spent as you do...

Perhaps you should look up the definition of untenable. Just a thought. I never said you don?t have a say in how money should or should not be spent. I do believe that you don?t really have any right to dictate to me how MY money should be spent.

Quote:
Perhaps you've forgotten the example of Christ, God on Earth....he gave to the poor, the outcast, the dregs of humanity...those were his sheep...and I see nothing like Him in you and your crew...

""Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these My brethren, ye have done it unto Me."
That should dictate policy concerning healthcare in the US or anyplace else...otherwise listen to false prophets. Can I get a witness?

Ah, so you believe that your religious beliefs should be the basis for US law, for taxation, and for social programs? I hate to be the one to bring you the bad news, but based on our Constitution, you can?t do that. See, there is this pesky, little known bit of inserted text in the Constitution. Many people don?t know about it, so I?ll reproduce it here for you:

?Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof?? (You can find the full text of this little known amendment here.)

The courts have upheld, time and again, that for this text to have any meaning whatsoever, freedom of religion has no meaning unless there is freedom from religion. As such, no law can be passed that is based solely on the religious beliefs of a person or group of persons. So, if this is the strongest part of your argument, then go sit in the corner and study your civics textbook until you understand.

FedUpAmerican;37201 wrote:
You cited opinions not facts. Let's see you sources then we'll talk.

Gave you the facts. Still waiting for you to talk.
kmchugh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Sep, 2007 05:44 am
@Pinochet73,
The fact is that there are a number of reasons, none of them ?unchristian? or ?selfish? to be opposed to the idea of a national healthcare system. The fact is that our nation has a long history of social programs, which time and again have been demonstrable failures.

Our current welfare system can be traced to the social programs instituted under FDR in the 30?s. However, they really took off, and began to take their present shape under the ?Great Society? initiatives started under Johnson in the 60?s. His idea was to ?level the playing field? by taking from those who had and giving to those who had not, in order to give the have nots a boost up, ultimately making them self-sufficient. Since the initiation of these programs, huge amounts of our tax dollars have gone to ?giving them a boost.?

Unfortunately, these programs had exactly the opposite effect than intended. Welfare and other social programs created a class in the society wholly dependent upon the government, and by extension, the taxpayer, for their living. There were even those who claimed welfare was ?their job,? feeling no responsibility to do any work whatsoever. And each new program, each dollar spent in welfare, food stamps, housing assistance, etc, served only to increase dependence on the government, which is what the socialists intended anyway. Just as you don?t bite the hand that feeds you, you don?t vote for the politician who wants to reduce your ?entitlements.? Sort of a voter insurance policy, particularly for the Democrats.

Worse, the US government has proved to be particularly inefficient at the administration of social programs (which a healthcare program would be). The last figures I read stated that for each dollar taken in taxes for welfare and other social programs, 40 to 60 cents was used in program administration. Think about that for a minute. That means that government run social programs carry a 40% to 60% overhead cost. Any charitable foundation that showed the same overhead would quickly find itself out of business for a lack of donors, if not shut down by the government. Yet we meekly accept this as the best our government can do. Worse, we want to turn the responsibility for our health care over to this inefficient entity.

In the end, what it boils down to is this: As we increase the number of things our government pays for, we increase our dependence on that government. Sooner or later, this dependence will be our undoing. We must stand on our own two feet. We cannot continue to penalize people for hard work. A 75-year experiment was conducted in the old Soviet Union based on just these principles. As I recall, that didn?t work out so well.

I do have a question, one that I have asked elsewhere before: When is it enough? When am I allowed to say that you are taking enough of what I make to ?better others? lives,? I want to keep the rest to better the lives of my family? Aaronssongs, when can I say this and not have you accuse me of being evil, or unchristian? Does that point ever come? Or should I continue to meekly accept every social program you think is necessary in order to ?level the field,? to be more ?Christlike? until my entire paycheck goes to helping others, yet leaving me destitute? After all, no matter how much is taken from me by the government, I still make way too much to qualify for any aid from the government.

Another question: Why is it unreasonable of me to say I want to stand on my own? Why is it unreasonable for me to expect that others who are fully capable of doing so to stand on their own as well?

And I have yet to have one proponent of a national healthcare proposal show me any other program or institution that covers 85% of our population that is still considered to be a failure.
aaronssongs
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Sep, 2007 08:04 am
@kmchugh,
kmchugh;37434 wrote:
The fact is that there are a number of reasons, none of them ?unchristian? or ?selfish? to be opposed to the idea of a national healthcare system. The fact is that our nation has a long history of social programs, which time and again have been demonstrable failures.

Our current welfare system can be traced to the social programs instituted under FDR in the 30?s. However, they really took off, and began to take their present shape under the ?Great Society? initiatives started under Johnson in the 60?s. His idea was to ?level the playing field? by taking from those who had and giving to those who had not, in order to give the have nots a boost up, ultimately making them self-sufficient. Since the initiation of these programs, huge amounts of our tax dollars have gone to ?giving them a boost.?

Unfortunately, these programs had exactly the opposite effect than intended. Welfare and other social programs created a class in the society wholly dependent upon the government, and by extension, the taxpayer, for their living. There were even those who claimed welfare was ?their job,? feeling no responsibility to do any work whatsoever. And each new program, each dollar spent in welfare, food stamps, housing assistance, etc, served only to increase dependence on the government, which is what the socialists intended anyway. Just as you don?t bite the hand that feeds you, you don?t vote for the politician who wants to reduce your ?entitlements.? Sort of a voter insurance policy, particularly for the Democrats.

Worse, the US government has proved to be particularly inefficient at the administration of social programs (which a healthcare program would be). The last figures I read stated that for each dollar taken in taxes for welfare and other social programs, 40 to 60 cents was used in program administration. Think about that for a minute. That means that government run social programs carry a 40% to 60% overhead cost. Any charitable foundation that showed the same overhead would quickly find itself out of business for a lack of donors, if not shut down by the government. Yet we meekly accept this as the best our government can do. Worse, we want to turn the responsibility for our health care over to this inefficient entity.

In the end, what it boils down to is this: As we increase the number of things our government pays for, we increase our dependence on that government. Sooner or later, this dependence will be our undoing. We must stand on our own two feet. We cannot continue to penalize people for hard work. A 75-year experiment was conducted in the old Soviet Union based on just these principles. As I recall, that didn?t work out so well.

I do have a question, one that I have asked elsewhere before: When is it enough? When am I allowed to say that you are taking enough of what I make to ?better others? lives,? I want to keep the rest to better the lives of my family? Aaronssongs, when can I say this and not have you accuse me of being evil, or unchristian? Does that point ever come? Or should I continue to meekly accept every social program you think is necessary in order to ?level the field,? to be more ?Christlike? until my entire paycheck goes to helping others, yet leaving me destitute? After all, no matter how much is taken from me by the government, I still make way too much to qualify for any aid from the government.

Another question: Why is it unreasonable of me to say I want to stand on my own? Why is it unreasonable for me to expect that others who are fully capable of doing so to stand on their own as well?

And I have yet to have one proponent of a national healthcare proposal show me any other program or institution that covers 85% of our population that is still considered to be a failure.


May I remind you of the lesson of history....another "autocrat" failed to acknowledge the suffering of his people, and what ensued was the Russian Revolution of 1917.
"King James Bible
But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more."
You either take care of people, now ( and by people, I mean the least of those...children, the old, and the infirmed) or they will revolt, later.
Those who fail the lessons of history, are doomed to repeat it.
kmchugh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Sep, 2007 08:13 am
@aaronssongs,
aaronssongs;37444 wrote:
May I remind you of the lesson of history....another "autocrat" failed to acknowledge the suffering of his people, and what ensued was the Russian Revolution of 1917.
"King James Bible
But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more."
You either take care of people, now ( and by people, I mean the least of those...children, the old, and the infirmed) or they will revolt, later.
Those who fail the lessons of history, are doomed to repeat it.


It's interesting that you would offer the potential of another Russian Revolution of 1917 as an example of where we are going if we don't get our healthcare. Because that revolution led to 75 years of socialism. Interestingly enough, at the end of that period, the whole system collapsed, primarily because the socialist economy could not sustain itself. It overburdened itself trying to provide everything to everyone, and in the end could provide nothing to anyone. The "Workers Paradise" was a misery to it's people, with rates of alcoholism higher than anywhere in the world. Standing in long lines to get chance to buy a roll of toilet paper. And that's what you want here? To quote your own post: "Those who fail the lessons of history, are doomed to repeat it."

It's also interesting that you, a Christian, would quote to me the King James version of the bible. Perhaps before you go any further, you should study on the history of that particular version of the good book. It isn't quite as pure as you might think.

And you still have not answered my question: Do we ever reach the point where we can say "enough taxation to support others?" Can we ever claim the remainder of what we earned as ours to support ourselves? Or must we support one social program after another, as infinitum? Where does this spiral end.
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Sep, 2007 08:24 am
@kmchugh,
kmchugh;37372 wrote:
Facts:

-Number of uninsured Americans: 41,500,000 (Your fact)
-US Population: 302,878,403 (Census Bureau)

-41,500,000/302878,403 = 0.137 = approx 14% (mathematics fact)

-100% - 14% = 86% (mathematics fact)

So, I guess I was wrong. 86%, not 85% of the population has health care coverage.

-Fact: US law does not permit any hospital to turn away patients based on inability to pay. All must be treated. (Legal fact, posted on the wall of every Emergency Room and Obstetrical department in every hospital in the US.)

-Fact: The Medicare prescription drug benefit offers many different formulae and options from which a beneficiary must select one program. (Medicare website)

-Fact: Many seniors found the Medicare drug benefit "unduly complicated" and confusing. (Senior Journal)

-Fact: Initial cost estimates of the prescription drug plan were $534 billion over 10 years. Latest estimates show that the cost of this program over 10 years will actually be $1.2 trillion, more than twice the initial estimates (Washington Post)

So, as you see, my post was not based on opinion, but rather on well supported facts. Kinda hard to argue mathematics.

I particularly love your last stupidity. You really set yourself up for a fall here. No, my capacity is not in ?bedpan cleansing.? (Pretty snotty, elitist attitude you have there, by the way. You have something against those who ?lower? themselves to clean others when sick?) No, I am a Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist. I have a Master?s Degree in Nurse Anesthesia, and I do surgical and obstetric anesthesia for a living.

And you? Host of a ?popular radio show?? Got your own ham radio set, huh?
He may have the ham radio but i serously doubt he has a licence for it?
0 Replies
 
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Sep, 2007 08:25 am
@aaronssongs,
aaronssongs;37390 wrote:
Spell the name right. And to answer your question, in a word...no
But some are offended by any and everything. Why don't you focus on a topic, and raise up off of me.


Why, we like being on top of you, LOL.
0 Replies
 
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Sep, 2007 08:27 am
@FedUpAmerican,
FedUpAmerican;37423 wrote:
Pinhead you are the epitome of whats wrong with America today. Your kind needs to be exterminated. You and you boy toy "big d". LOL!
So should we be on your show before or after we are exterminated?
0 Replies
 
 

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