The Lack Of Healthcare Coverage

@briansol,

I don't have health insurance because I simply haven't ever considered horrible, long-term injury. My father and I both have living wills stating a desire not to be on extended life support (whether or not those wishes are honored is another issue), so I've never planned, nor will I plan for such a contingency. I do see value in health insurance for things like cancer, or another chronic condition, but I have a hard time justifying paying a premium to a company over such concerns. You've got a valid point, I'm just really into saving money for a house. End of the day, I'll probably cave and get some before long, but I like to think not having one more bill makes me more economically free in a cool, rebellious sort of way.

1 Reply

@FedUpAmerican,

FedUpAmerican;37673 wrote:

Most of the Republicans here have no debate skills.

It's interesting that you, of all people, would say this. You claimed that one of my first posts was nothing but opinion. You further said that as soon as I gave you facts, you would enter the debate. I gave you the facts, and you have yet to respond to any of those. Your vitriol has grown stronger while your position grows weaker.

0 Replies

@Freeman15,

I thought about going self insured when I was young like you freeman

I figure to date I have spent over 90K on insurance so why not.

But then I had the kids and realized I could not take that chance with them.

Freeman15;37831 wrote:

I don't have health insurance because I simply haven't ever considered horrible, long-term injury. My father and I both have living wills stating a desire not to be on extended life support (whether or not those wishes are honored is another issue), so I've never planned, nor will I plan for such a contingency. I do see value in health insurance for things like cancer, or another chronic condition, but I have a hard time justifying paying a premium to a company over such concerns. You've got a valid point, I'm just really into saving money for a house. End of the day, I'll probably cave and get some before long, but I like to think not having one more bill makes me more economically free in a cool, rebellious sort of way.

0 Replies

@kmchugh,

kmchugh;37372 wrote:

Um, FedUpAmerican, still waiting for you to show me the errors in these "opinions."

2 Replies

@kmchugh,

kmchugh;38619 wrote:

Um, FedUpAmerican, still waiting for you to show me the errors in these "opinions."

Originally stated by kmchugh View Post
Facts:

-Number of uninsured Americans: 41,500,000 (Your fact)
-US Population: 302,878,403 (Census Bureau)

-41,500,000/302878,403 = 0.137 = approx 14% (mathematics fact)

-100% - 14% = 86% (mathematics fact)

So, I guess I was wrong. 86%, not 85% of the population has health care coverage.

-Fact: US law does not permit any hospital to turn away patients based on inability to pay. All must be treated. (Legal fact, posted on the wall of every Emergency Room and Obstetrical department in every hospital in the US.)

Laws are broken everyday...I, personally witnessed patients being turned away from Methodist Hospital -Houston, as an ER Orderly, in the mid '70's...to think that that practice doesn't go on today, is naive.

-Fact: The Medicare prescription drug benefit offers many different formulae and options from which a beneficiary must select one program. (Medicare website)

As a beneficiary, I can tell you from personal experience that I am paying more for my take home meds than I did, pre Plan D.

-Fact: Many seniors found the Medicare drug benefit "unduly complicated" and confusing. (Senior Journal)

True, as well as, ineffective

-Fact: Initial cost estimates of the prescription drug plan were $534 billion over 10 years. Latest estimates show that the cost of this program over 10 years will actually be $1.2 trillion, more than twice the initial estimates (Washington Post)

Were the coffers of Medicare Trust Fund, not raided by the Bush Administration to give tax breaks to the wealthiest Americans, there would have been ample funds to take care of the prescription drug plan, with funds left over.

So, as you see, my post was not based on opinion, but rather on well supported facts. Kinda hard to argue mathematics.

I particularly love your last stupidity. You really set yourself up for a fall here. No, my capacity is not in “bedpan cleansing.” (Pretty snotty, elitist attitude you have there, by the way. You have something against those who “lower” themselves to clean others when sick?) No, I am a Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist. I have a Master’s Degree in Nurse Anesthesia, and I do surgical and obstetric anesthesia for a living.

So, big whoop! I'm a certified cardio pumonary technologist, and worked under world-renown Pulmonologist P.M. Stevens, the head of Baylor College of Medicine, Pulmonary Division, for 15 yrs. I was also the Chief Bronchoscopy Tech. ....and your point was?

2 Replies

@aaronssongs,

Soooo the general idea behind socialized medicine is to insure the entire nation when only 15% are uninsured, and when those 15% have access to emergency care when needed. Yeah, this seems like a plan worth sinking over one trillion dollars into (and it will cost that much).....

2 Replies

@Freeman15,

Freeman15;38628 wrote:

Soooo the general idea behind socialized medicine is to insure the entire nation when only 15% are uninsured, and when those 15% have access to emergency care when needed. Yeah, this seems like a plan worth sinking over one trillion dollars into (and it will cost that much).....

there is more than 15% of the population that is uninsured...don't believe everything that anyone tells you....Please...if it were only true...there wouldn't be such an uproar. Use your brain.......

2 Replies

@aaronssongs,

Quote:

Data released today by the Census Bureau show that the number of uninsured Americans stood at a record 46.6 million in 2005, with 15.9 percent of Americans lacking health coverage. “The number of uninsured Americans reached an all-time high in 2005,” said Robert Greenstein, executive director of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. “It is sobering that 5.4 million more people lacked health insurance in 2005 than in the recession year of 2001, primarily because of the erosion of employer-based insurance.”

Sorry, 16%.

Source:
The Number of Uninsured Americans Is at an All-Time High, 8/29/06

Edit:

AND AND AND
Roughly ten million of the "uninsured" aren't US citizens. Just a fun fact.

0 Replies

@aaronssongs,

aaronssongs;38622 wrote:

Laws are broken everyday...I, personally witnessed patients being turned away from Methodist Hospital -Houston, as an ER Orderly, in the mid '70's...to think that that practice doesn't go on today, is naive.

So, as I understand it, you want to base your position on what you saw in the mid-70's, before current law was in effect. Is that about right? That's not naive, that’s out of touch. Hospitals today don’t turn away patients of any stripe, simply because to do so would incur huge penalties. Does that mean that the law is never broken? Of course not, but that’s far more rare than you would have us believe. I personally have never seen it happen. If your argument is that the law could be broken, well of course that’s true. But then it could also be broken under any system you propose as well. So this argument is a wash.

Quote:

As a beneficiary, I can tell you from personal experience that I am paying more for my take home meds than I did, pre Plan D.

True, as well as, ineffective

Were the coffers of Medicare Trust Fund, not raided by the Bush Administration to give tax breaks to the wealthiest Americans, there would have been ample funds to take care of the prescription drug plan, with funds left over.

Like it or not, your points here, true as they may be, argue strongly against a national healthcare plan, rather than for it. Our government has a long history of (improper) involvement in social programs. Without fail, when they so involve themselves, these programs are always complicated and unresponsive. All are weighted down by top heavy, inefficient bureaucracies. Frequently, they not only don’t treat root causes, but penalize those who would try to do so. As for raiding the coffers of one program to finance another, whether your point is true or not (it isn’t in this case, but we will never come to agreement on that, either), our federal government has a LOOOOOONG history of this type action. There was a time that social security had a surplus of funds. Seeing this, our congress raided these coffers to pay for other pet projects, to the point that now social security may face bankruptcy before I retire.

Quote:

So, big whoop! I'm a certified cardio pumonary technologist, and worked under world-renown Pulmonologist P.M. Stevens, the head of Baylor College of Medicine, Pulmonary Division, for 15 yrs. I was also the Chief Bronchoscopy Tech. ....and your point was?

Let's see. CRNA with a Master's degree, versus a "tech" with what, at most a Bachelor's, and more likely a certificate from a technical school? But I am assuming, you might even have a PhD. But that wasn't my point, and I’m not going to get into a peeing contest with you over credentials and education. My point was directed at FedUpAmerican, who took a nasty, snotty swipe not only at me, but at anyone who provides direct patient care at the most basic (dare I even say, the most Christian) level.

However, let me ask you this. I last administered (not assisted, administered) an anesthetic two days ago. Being on call, I will probably go in today and either administer surgical or obstetric anesthesia. When were you last involved in patient care? Just how current is your knowledge of what goes on in healthcare?

0 Replies

@aaronssongs,

aaronssongs;38637 wrote:

there is more than 15% of the population that is uninsured...don't believe everything that anyone tells you....Please...if it were only true...there wouldn't be such an uproar. Use your brain.......

And here is a huge problem with the argument for nationalized healthcare. The pro side offers us a number designed to evoke an emotional response; 41 million without healthcare. (The emotional response is sought because reasoned thought demonstrates that the problem isn't as large as we would be led to believe.)

So, someone comes along, using YOUR numbers, and does some elementary school math. Suddenly, the problem you find so earth shattering doesn't seem quite the crisis you would make it out to be. Your response? "Don't believe everything you read!"

Well, hell's bells, your side wrote it!

0 Replies

@Freeman15,

Freeman15;38628 wrote:

Soooo the general idea behind socialized medicine is to insure the entire nation when only 15% are uninsured, and when those 15% have access to emergency care when needed. Yeah, this seems like a plan worth sinking over one trillion dollars into (and it will cost that much).....

Seems A LOT better than $12 billion a month to fund the ILLEGAL OCCUPATION of Iraq.

4 Replies

@FedUpAmerican,

FedUpAmerican;38657 wrote:

Seems A LOT better than $12 billion a month to fund the ILLEGAL OCCUPATION of Iraq.

you think? But they'd rather be killing up some towel heads than to be helping old people and children...wouldn't y'all? Just like childhood..cowboys and indians...for real! These folks are mentally ill....it's the only explanation...they are living in fantasy worlds, where reality isn't real...only their imaginations are.

1 Reply

@aaronssongs,

aaronssongs;38666 wrote:

you think? But they'd rather be killing up some towel heads than to be helping old people and children...wouldn't y'all? Just like childhood..cowboys and indians...for real! These folks are mentally ill....it's the only explanation...they are living in fantasy worlds, where reality isn't real...only their imaginations are.

Aaron, and Fedup, you BOTH know that I oppose the war in Iraq, so your points are not legitimate, and reek of a lack of valid argument. I support cutting ALL spending significantly whilst lowering taxes on EVERYBODY, you know it, you simply choose to take the intellectual low-road. It's a pity.

47 million Americans without health insurance (what most of the sites I've been reading say)
of which:

8.3 million make $50-74.9k per annum
8.74 million make more than $75k per annum

Ok, so now the 47 million has dropped to 30million, since we shouldn't insure those who can already afford it, and argument FOR universal health care is that people NEED it. These folks don't, so they're out.

Of the remaining 30million uninsured:
9.487 million are non-citizens, leaving us with 21million uninsured Americans. Surely we shouldn't insure non-citizens, we'd be bankrupt even faster and illegals would invade our country at an even higher rate of speed.

Of the 21 million Americans uninsured, 45% of them are only frictionally uninsured, and will have insurance within 4 months. Yielding 11 million Americans consistently living without health insurance.

11 million out of 300 million. This does not account for those already on Medicaid, Medicare, or other national and state programs. So the generous number of uninsured Americans who have a real need of free health insurance is actually in the realm of 4%. Massive government spending for a program that is only needed by 4% of the population. Yeah, this is a WONDERFUL idea.

Source:
Health Care Lie: '47 Million Uninsured Americans'

0 Replies

@FedUpAmerican,

That breakdown should make us think twice about setting up universal healthcare.

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@FedUpAmerican,

ANYTHING would be welcomed to get you people to even think at all.

1 Reply

@FedUpAmerican,

A very excellent and moral point fed up.

FedUpAmerican;38657 wrote:

Seems A LOT better than $12 billion a month to fund the ILLEGAL OCCUPATION of Iraq.

1 Reply

@kmchugh,

kmchugh;38619 wrote:

Um, FedUpAmerican, still waiting for you to show me the errors in these "opinions."

And waiting and waiting?

0 Replies

@FedUpAmerican,

FedUpAmerican;38657 wrote:

Seems A LOT better than $12 billion a month to fund the ILLEGAL OCCUPATION of Iraq.

You'd better write your Congressman about that.

0 Replies

@FedUpAmerican,

FedUpAmerican;38675 wrote:

ANYTHING would be welcomed to get you people to even think at all.

First off maybe you could think about rebuting kmchugh?

0 Replies

@wvpeach,

wvpeach;38704 wrote:

A very excellent and moral point fed up.

Where?!

1 Reply

The Lack Of Healthcare Coverage

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