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Bible Party of the USA

 
 
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2009 12:57 pm
@xexon,
xexon;64276 wrote:
Would you prefer someone speaking on behalf of their religion?

Because I speak from personal revelation instead of scripture, people will naturally think ego is at work. They likely have no experience with anything else.

But what else can I use? Communication has to go through ego to reach you. Same for the rest. You employ the ego to communicate with me.

The difference is I see ego as a tool. Most others are locked into it and see nothing else. It's all they are. Their human identity.

When you ask the question "is this all that I am?", a spiritual journey starts to unfold.

It's a natural progression that has nothing to do with religion. You leave spiritual puberty behind just as you leave physical puberty behind. You gain new perceptions and skills.

Making fun of me is like a 10 year old wanting the beard I have and not able to grow it themselves. You'll get what I have when you're ready to. Not before.

x


While you may not be religious you are the epitome of everything that is wrong with religion. Your sense of superiority emanates from you. your irrational certainty is the cause of many woes. Your anti-rationalism mantra hinders progress. It is the same zealotry minus the doctrine.
xexon
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2009 02:41 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
But I'm not superior. Make no claims to it. This is your view of me, not my view of me. If I'm guilty of anything, it's being your older brother in a way you can't understand just yet.

This is how humans mature. It's a natural progression. And it's gone on like this since the beginning.

Political entities like this bible party have their hearts in the right place, but they are attempting something they themselves have not yet mastered.

Themselves.



x
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2009 03:10 pm
@xexon,
xexon;64286 wrote:
But I'm not superior. Make no claims to it. This is your view of me, not my view of me. If I'm guilty of anything, it's being your older brother in a way you can't understand just yet.


Contradiction in red...
xexon
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2009 03:30 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
You seem to think all people are created equal. You know as well as I do this is not the case. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses.

Some are better artists than I am. Some people ride a bike faster than I do.

I don't mind. I'm glad for them. Their superiority in certain things doesn't bother me. I'm not in competition with them.

If I have some skills you don't, why not just be glad for me and move on?

I would do the same for you.




x
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Feb, 2009 03:05 am
@xexon,
xexon;64274 wrote:
I'm not saying that you subscribe to any religion. I'm saying that the society in which we exist, religious influence is unavoidable.

The fact that you have no more love of religion than myself means that you did taste of it in your early years. Yes?

I've encountered many people with your "show me" attitude over the years.

I can't show you anything, but I can help you understand that not everyone is like you. Some have different abilities that you may not understand or even believe in.

Your own evolution will convince you otherwise when you're ready. You're not. Thats why I call you a spiritual child. You're not old enough to see over the fridge just yet.

But you will. Because you're growing. And you're asking the right questions about the way things are.

Death? More religious mythology.

Only the body dies.



x


Nope, I have never had a bad experience or any particular experience at church when I was young. Leaned about the stories at school and played a sheep in the nativity play, but that's about it.

What fascinates me is history. To cut a long story short nothing about the Bible stacks up under scrutiny and when you throw science into the mix it further falls apart, on pretty much page 1 of Genesis really.

You admit yourself

Quote:
I can't show you anything, but I can help you understand that not everyone is like you.


Well If you can't show me then it ain't true, I can't test. You can't even bring forth some small facts to support your idea. Right there is where it all falls down and becomes like any other faith in the world, no evidence just the individuals 'belief/ faith' they are right.

If you want us to acknoledge what you are saying is true then you must be able to bring something to the table? If not then only logical out come based upon the knowledge we have is that once the body dies so does the mind as, with no oxygen the chemicl reactions begin to cease and the electrical impulses diminish, just like eversingle creature on the planet.

We are no different from every living organism on this planet, in a perpetual arms race with our surrounding habitat, evolving all the time. this planet was here 4.5 billion years before we were, it will be here for another 4.5 Billion after we are gone (cosmic influences allowing).

Oh and if everyone were the same as me it would be a bloody boring planet, and my wife has just indicated that one is more than enough.
xexon
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Feb, 2009 04:35 am
@Numpty,
Learned men of high position used to think the world was flat.

Evolution of knowledge proved them wrong.

Same as it is with spiritual things. There is an evolution to what you will experience. You deny it now because you can't pick up anything outside of your 5 senses. It doesn't mean you won't later. In fact, I promise you will. Evolution will sweep you along despite your resistance to it.

This world is full of people in spirirtual puberty. Children. I keep using the comparison because its true. Look around at all the war and greed and struggle for power over others. Is this not the kind of world you would expect if children ran the show?

People who are in tune with their higher self are aliens here.

And they're often put to death when they're found.

Some children get grumpy when you try to wake them.



x
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Feb, 2009 07:13 am
@xexon,
xexon;64295 wrote:
Learned men of high position used to think the world was flat.

Evolution of knowledge proved them wrong.

Same as it is with spiritual things. There is an evolution to what you will experience. You deny it now because you can't pick up anything outside of your 5 senses. It doesn't mean you won't later. In fact, I promise you will. Evolution will sweep you along despite your resistance to it.

This world is full of people in spirirtual puberty. Children. I keep using the comparison because its true. Look around at all the war and greed and struggle for power over others. Is this not the kind of world you would expect if children ran the show?

People who are in tune with their higher self are aliens here.

And they're often put to death when they're found.

Some children get grumpy when you try to wake them.



x


Asserting speculation as if it were fact, does not make it so. This is the irrational certainty that I was speaking of.
0 Replies
 
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Feb, 2009 07:16 am
@xexon,
xexon;64288 wrote:

If I have some skills you don't, why not just be glad for me and move on?



This is exactly the kind of attitude I have a problem with. But just for giggles what "skill" do you suppose you are better at.
xexon
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Feb, 2009 09:12 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Please do not mistake my confidence for attitude. I tell you what I see, not what I believe. Nobody placed anything in me from the outside I did not already possess.

The only way you will ever know is to work on those qualities that nuture compassion. When you think a lot, this interferes with that ability. I should know. My original approach to God was through particle physics and the unified field theory. I was looking to see what the highest form of energy was. That common underlying energy from which everything else was born from.

I found physics lacking in the ability to explain that. However, the ancient sages of India knew quite abit about particle physics, and how the interplay of matter and desire form reality. This is thousands of years ago. Long before particle accelerators.

The reason being goes back to perceptual range. You can't build an instrument out of physical matter to see something that exists in a more rarified reality than itself.

There's only one thing that goes there. Consciousness. Another kind of energy.

Someday you're going to break out of the egg. See reality as it is.

The human world is a grain of sand on a very large beach.

But don't take my word for it. Come see for yourself. Nobody is holding your leash but you.




x
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Feb, 2009 12:06 pm
@xexon,
xexon;64299 wrote:
Please do not mistake my confidence for attitude. I tell you what I see, not what I believe. Nobody placed anything in me from the outside I did not already possess.


I would say the exact same thing.

Quote:

The only way you will ever know is to work on those qualities that nuture compassion. When you think a lot, this interferes with that ability.


So now thinking is bad? With that bit of info I can see why you have the position you do. Perhaps your position wouldn't be so irrational if you did a little more thinking yourself. It wasn't compassion that invented the computer, it wasn't compassion that invented crop rotation, it wasn't compassion that invented the lightbulb. compassion may guide are social interactions it may even even help us mature as human beings, but it is the totally wrong tool for discovering truth. There is no replacement or substitute for rational thinking, there just isn't.

Quote:
I should know. My original approach to God was through particle physics and the unified field theory. I was looking to see what the highest form of energy was. That common underlying energy from which everything else was born from.


???

You do know what energy is right?

Quote:
I found physics lacking in the ability to explain that. However, the ancient sages of India knew quite abit about particle physics,


yeah and the Amish are quite adept electricians. :rollinglaugh:


Quote:
The reason being goes back to perceptual range. You can't build an instrument out of physical matter to see something that exists in a more rarified reality than itself.


You assume there even is a more rarefied reality to explore in the first place, you know what Occam's razor says about this sort of reasoning?

Quote:
There's only one thing that goes there. Consciousness. Another kind of energy.


And again I ask, do you even know what energy is?

Consciousness is the name of the brain process that allows us to think. Consciousness isn't energy, it isn't really anything, consciousness is just the name of a set of occurrences.

Quote:
Someday you're going to break out of the egg. See reality as it is.


See this is the ills of Esotericism. This false sense of certainty, the belief that you "know" you are right and cannot be wrong, however reality shows otherwise. However certain you think you are, you could be wrong, you can always be wrong, I could be wrong, but the difference is that I am honest. I admit I could be wrong. You would only be lying to yourself if you said that you can't be wrong. There is just as much of a chance of you "realizing" that you are wrong as I am.
0 Replies
 
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Mar, 2009 02:31 am
@Volunteer,
OK it's time to stop looking into each others' belly buttons and get back to the purpose of this thread, to discuss the Bible Party of the USA.
xexon
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Mar, 2009 07:21 am
@Volunteer,
May this party never see the light of day.

Keep religion out of government.


x
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Mar, 2009 07:27 am
@xexon,
xexon;64377 wrote:
May this party never see the light of day.

Keep religion out of government.


x


Whatever is your passion is your religion. If you are passionate enough to go into politics to change something, then you have placed that issue or ideal above any other consideration in your life. It is then your religion. If you want to keep religion out of government, you'll have to ban humans from participating in government.

Otherwise your prayer is just a wish to ban certain types of religious thought or value systems from making their way into law or government. Since this is unconstitutional due to all US citizens having the right to speak their thoughts and to equal protection under the law, it won't happen.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Mar, 2009 08:51 am
@Volunteer,
Volunteer;64394 wrote:
Whatever is your passion is your religion. If you are passionate enough to go into politics to change something, then you have placed that issue or ideal above any other consideration in your life. It is then your religion.


Mindless redefining of established terms won't get you very far.

Perhaps you'd like to use the REAL DEFINITION of religion, not the one you invented?
0 Replies
 
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Mar, 2009 09:03 am
@Volunteer,
Volunteer;64394 wrote:
Whatever is your passion is your religion. If you are passionate enough to go into politics to change something, then you have placed that issue or ideal above any other consideration in your life. It is then your religion. If you want to keep religion out of government, you'll have to ban humans from participating in government.

Otherwise your prayer is just a wish to ban certain types of religious thought or value systems from making their way into law or government. Since this is unconstitutional due to all US citizens having the right to speak their thoughts and to equal protection under the law, it won't happen.


Not too hot on the US constitution but i think you'll find it was founded upon the idea that Religion would have no involvement in the Government. Correct me if I am wrongs Americans.
0 Replies
 
xexon
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Mar, 2009 09:54 am
@Volunteer,
Volunteer;64394 wrote:
Whatever is your passion is your religion. If you are passionate enough to go into politics to change something, then you have placed that issue or ideal above any other consideration in your life. It is then your religion. If you want to keep religion out of government, you'll have to ban humans from participating in government.

Otherwise your prayer is just a wish to ban certain types of religious thought or value systems from making their way into law or government. Since this is unconstitutional due to all US citizens having the right to speak their thoughts and to equal protection under the law, it won't happen.





In regards to the law, religion and smoking are in the same boat. You are free to exercise your right to smoke, but secondhand smoke is a danger to all. For that reason, it's now regulated.

The government of the United States was founded on the right for all religions to be equal under the law. If Christianity seems to have an influence, its because of how influentual the church was over the population in that day. Including those who were the founding fathers.

Although many of them were of Christian upbringing, they didn't really stick to it like glue. These people were coming to the new world in an attempt to get out from under the church that was all pervasive in Europe.

Secondhand smoke was everywhere.

They wanted a land where that wasn't the case, and they wrote the laws regarding the separation of church and state in that spirit. You can never allow any one religion to get the upper hand.

All welcome to be heard, but we must be ever watchful for an alpha male who wishes to dominate.




x
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Mar, 2009 10:35 am
@xexon,
"Which shall we wonder at most, the endurance of the faithful or the cruelty of their tormentors? Is it not proven beyond all dispute that there is no limit to the enormities which men will commit when they are once persuaded that they are keepers of other men's consciences? To spread religion by any means, and to crush heresy by all means is the practical inference from the doctrine that one man may control another's religion. Given the duty of a state to foster some one form of faith, and by the sure inductions of our nature slowly but certainly persecution will occur. To prevent for ever the possibility of Papists roasting Protestants, Anglicans hanging Romish priests, and Puritans flogging Quakers, let every form of state-churchism be utterly abolished, and the remembrance of the long curse which it has cast upon the world be blotted out for ever."



-Spurgeon, Charles H. (August 1988). "The Inquisition". Sword and Trowel, The Inquisition
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2009 09:59 am
@xexon,
xexon;64403 wrote:
In regards to the law, religion and smoking are in the same boat. You are free to exercise your right to smoke, but secondhand smoke is a danger to all. For that reason, it's now regulated....

...Secondhand smoke was everywhere....x
0 Replies
 
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2009 10:05 am
@xexon,
xexon;64403 wrote:
...The government of the United States was founded on the right for all religions to be equal under the law. If Christianity seems to have an influence, its because of how influentual the church was over the population in that day. Including those who were the founding fathers.

Although many of them were of Christian upbringing, they didn't really stick to it like glue. These people were coming to the new world in an attempt to get out from under the church that was all pervasive in Europe.

Secondhand smoke was everywhere.

They wanted a land where that wasn't the case, and they wrote the laws regarding the separation of church and state in that spirit. You can never allow any one religion to get the upper hand.

x


The laws were written to prohibit the new nation state from establishing a state religion. This was to allow citizens freedom of conscience in accordance with the idea of free will embodied in the Bible. It had nothing to do with restricting participation of Christians or any other group from participation in the making of public policy or the laws of the land. If you continue to assert things as true, provide facts that can be verified as support.
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2009 10:07 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;64404 wrote:
"Which shall we wonder at most, the endurance of the faithful or the cruelty of their tormentors? Is it not proven beyond all dispute that there is no limit to the enormities which men will commit when they are once persuaded that they are keepers of other men's consciences? To spread religion by any means, and to crush heresy by all means is the practical inference from the doctrine that one man may control another's religion. Given the duty of a state to foster some one form of faith, and by the sure inductions of our nature slowly but certainly persecution will occur. To prevent for ever the possibility of Papists roasting Protestants, Anglicans hanging Romish priests, and Puritans flogging Quakers, let every form of state-churchism be utterly abolished, and the remembrance of the long curse which it has cast upon the world be blotted out for ever."

-Spurgeon, Charles H. (August 1988). "The Inquisition". Sword and Trowel, The Inquisition


Say what you really mean.
 

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