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Bible Party of the USA

 
 
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2007 09:45 am
@Volunteer,
I think Volunteer said that this wasn't the mission of the Bible Party, it was to represent Christian values in Congress, etc., which is fine, because everyone in Congress is influenced by their beliefs, if the beliefs are of a religious nature and they openly declare it, it doesn't matter.
rugonnacry
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2007 09:53 am
@Volunteer,
It does matter, we are here to avoid religious persecution if all of your political actions are base on religion YOUR religion, then I am being persecuted.
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2007 09:57 am
@Volunteer,
Which is basically taking away their right to be influenced by their religion.
0 Replies
 
rugonnacry
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2007 10:13 am
@Volunteer,
again YOU lose your rights when they infringe on someone elses.

Example.

Freedom Of Speach. Yet you cannot yell FIRE in a movie theatre. Thus in that instance your freedom of speach has been taken away.

Anyone is welcome to follow their own religion and have their life run by that religion, but when their religion starts effecting the masses then they lose that right in that instance.
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2007 10:42 am
@rugonnacry,
rugonnacry;16498 wrote:
You foound plenty of holes? Yet the two refrences you made were not holes.

Oh my It doesnt say claim. it says will not establish... your right, and what does that mean? It means the UNited States will NEVER have a recognized OFFICIAL religion. Thus will not claim any ONE religion. That hole you tried to dig was just filled back in LOL

And your OTHER hole, I am confused Wher did I say IT said Citizens Not Congress? I will try and answer you anyways. Congress is the elected voice of the Citizery thus saying Congress IS saying citizens.

PLease let me know what holes you were referring too. I enjoy learnign and I can only lear if I am wrong and someone corrects me.
Quote:
Oh my It doesnt say claim. it says will not establish... your right, and what does that mean? It means the UNited States will NEVER have a recognized OFFICIAL religion. Thus will not claim any ONE religion. That hole you tried to dig was just filled back in LOL
Self filing holes, nice! "The United States will Not Claim ONE religion " So you admit, The Constitution says nothing of the United States, it say Congress. Know the difference? Looks like your hole just opened back up. Also, i was not the one saying "claim," I was quoting you.
Quote:
And your OTHER hole, I am confused Wher did I say IT said Citizens Not Congress?
I didn't say you said that. The Constituition says Congress, you think that applys to everyone including Congress, it don't. Read and quote where you interpret that in the Constitution? If you can?
Quote:
I will try and answer you anyways. Congress is the elected voice of the Citizery thus saying Congress IS saying citizens.
People in Congress are American citizens, that is as close as your gonna get. Unless you can prove otherwise?
Quote:
PLease let me know what holes you were referring too. I enjoy learnign and I can only lear if I am wrong and someone corrects me.
I'm glad you enjoy it, i have no problem being corrected as well, but as time has told. That don't happen very often, LOL.
0 Replies
 
rugonnacry
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2007 10:45 am
@Volunteer,
And Congress is..... UnitedStates representitives very good. Your attempt to reopen that hole was like a BB gun trying to bring down a 747.

Look up the word paraphrase. that might explain why it was okay for me to say CLAIM.
0 Replies
 
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2007 10:48 am
@rugonnacry,
rugonnacry;16680 wrote:
again YOU lose your rights when they infringe on someone elses.

Example.

Freedom Of Speach. Yet you cannot yell FIRE in a movie theatre. Thus in that instance your freedom of speach has been taken away.

Anyone is welcome to follow their own religion and have their life run by that religion, but when their religion starts effecting the masses then they lose that right in that instance.


So, basically, anyone who is inspired or influenced by their faith politically should not hold public office?
0 Replies
 
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2007 10:49 am
@Reagaknight,
Reagaknight;16511 wrote:
This amendment cannot come into play for the 'Bible Party' because you cannot prohibit the free excersize of religion. To ban the Bible Party would be to do so. To stop Bible Party members from holding office would also do so, and any politician is influenced by their personal beliefs anyway.
I agree.
0 Replies
 
rugonnacry
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2007 10:50 am
@Reagaknight,
I will say this as simply as possible. If you respond with the same question again I am going to E-Shoot you.

Religion can govern themselves Their religion CANNOT govern me.

Leave your personal Life at home when you go to the office.
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2007 10:54 am
@rugonnacry,
rugonnacry;16558 wrote:
Actually it can, When do you lose your rights? Answer. When you infringeing on someone elses rights.

Bible Party USA gets elected to the big office (HAHAHAHAHA sorry) then that party who has publicly claimed chritianity now represents the nation, thus the nation is now represented as christian, hence My rights are infringed on.

You get the point.


You cant
Quote:
Actually it can, When do you lose your rights? Answer. When you infringeing on someone elses rights.

Oops, looks like you fell in another hole. Your reasoning for this one should be good?
Quote:
Bible Party USA gets elected to the big office (HAHAHAHAHA sorry) then that party who has publicly claimed chritianity now represents the nation, thus the nation is now represented as christian, hence My rights are infringed on.

You get the point.
No, please explain your reasoning in detail?
0 Replies
 
rugonnacry
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2007 10:57 am
@Volunteer,
I am looking for the hole? An explanation on something as basic as Infringement of rights does not need detail.

Unless you can find a real hole instead of fabricating one, I resend (is that the right word?) my offer.
0 Replies
 
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2007 10:59 am
@Volunteer,
Which means that virtually all Congressmen would have to refrain from voting on most things because they are influenced in their decision by their personal lives and those of their constituents influence who and what they are going to vote for, so you might as well be open about being a Christian and being influenced by your faith, or being a liberal or conservative and being influenced by that. Those two things can be considered religions easily. The two parties can be considered religious groups. So if no religious people can hold offfice, then no one can. People vote for people because they believe what that person believes, and if the majority want their government to have people of faith who will make decisions accordingly in it, then the majority will have it that way.
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2007 11:00 am
@rugonnacry,
rugonnacry;16677 wrote:
It does matter, we are here to avoid religious persecution if all of your political actions are base on religion YOUR religion, then I am being persecuted.

So to avoid persecution you persecute others? Boy are you confused!
Quote:
we are here to avoid religious persecution
Explain how you avoid it? Do you feel you are being persecuted now? Are we forcing you to have this conversation in which you have been avoiding religion, what seems to probably be you've been avoiding your whole life?
0 Replies
 
rugonnacry
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2007 11:08 am
@Volunteer,
To avoid persecution you persecut others? That was stupid. Yes this is a personal attsack on your intelligence. Because I do not believe that YOUR religion should mandate MY life I am persecuting you. Your conversation with me on this topic is done. (Awaits the many posting flames about how I can not handle a debate or contradiction blah blah blah. I just no one some one is argueing out of spite not out of logic)



Reagaknight- You almost have me there. Continue on a bit more with congressmen being elected by people with like views.
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2007 11:09 am
@rugonnacry,
rugonnacry;16680 wrote:
again YOU lose your rights when they infringe on someone else's.

Example.

Freedom Of Speech. Yet you cannot yell FIRE in a movie theatre. Thus in that instance your freedom of speech has been taken away.

Anyone is welcome to follow their own religion and have their life run by that religion, but when their religion starts effecting the masses then they lose that right in that instance.
Quote:
again YOU lose your rights when they infringe on someone else's.

Wrong!
Quote:
Freedom Of Speech. Yet you cannot yell FIRE in a movie theatre.
Yes you can yell. But as we know there is a penalty for doing so according to the law. If anyone dies because of your indiscretion you will be charged with manslaughter.
Quote:
Thus in that instance your freedom of speech has been taken away.
Taken away from whom? Any decent person knows not to do such a thing, and the penalty if they decide otherwise. Do you agree that what they get is deserved? Is the penalty just? If so, and you still went and exercised your right to free speech and yelled "fire." You get what you deserve and no your right wasn't infringed on by anyone but yourself. Strange you consistently see otherwise?
0 Replies
 
rugonnacry
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2007 11:13 am
@Volunteer,
TO avoid persecution I persecute others? That was stupid. Yes that was a personal attack to your intelligence. II do not believe that YOUR religion should mandate MY lfe I am persecuting you? (No That wasnt really a question)

WRONG you say. You are the one that is confused. look it up

Your conversation with me on this board is through (awaits the many flaming posts about not being able to handle a debate or confrontation blahblahblah) I know when someone is argueing out of spite instead of out of logic.
0 Replies
 
rugonnacry
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2007 11:14 am
@Volunteer,
Reagaknight. I hope you will continue with your last post. IT deffintely has me seeing from a differnt point of view. Not argreeing of course but actually seeing/
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2007 11:21 am
@rugonnacry,
rugonnacry;16690 wrote:
To avoid persecution you persecut others? That was stupid. Yes this is a personal attsack on your intelligence. Because I do not believe that YOUR religion should mandate MY life I am persecuting you. Your conversation with me on this topic is done. (Awaits the many posting flames about how I can not handle a debate or contradiction blah blah blah. I just no one some one is argueing out of spite not out of logic)



Reagaknight- You almost have me there. Continue on a bit more with congressmen being elected by people with like views.
Quote:
To avoid persecution you persecut others? That was stupid.
LOL, It's ok if you think it's stupid. What do you think the rest of the forum thinks about it?
Quote:
Yes this is a personal attsack on your intelligence.
Personal attacks are not allowed. Don't you find personal attacks intolerable? Or is it only allowed when you are doing it?
Quote:
Because I do not believe that YOUR religion should mandate MY life I am persecuting you.
Believe what you want, you have the freedom to do so. Funny you think we are trying to stop you? Like i said, your persecuting to avoid being persecuted!
Quote:
Your conversation with me on this topic is done.
That usually happens when one gets to emotional and one also is not confortable with himself, we often avoid the issue once it gets too intense. I'll be here if you change your mind, but you will be faced with the same exact questions if you return. Good luck with your problem.
Quote:
(Awaits the many posting flames about how I can not handle a debate or contradiction blah blah blah. I just no one some one is argueing out of spite not out of logic)
You've done this before huh? I figured you out a while back. You like avoiding unconfortable situtuations. You'll not get flamed from me, i'll leave the emotional attacks to you. And yes it is a sign that you cannot handle the situation. You knowing of this leads me to believe you have been accused of this before? Do you feel mayby you have established a patern due to your emotional state?
0 Replies
 
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2007 11:40 am
@Volunteer,
Okay, although I think it's not necessary to expand on that point, I'm not you, so... Basically, yes, the people elect people who they agree with, of course, if it is possible. There are many people who would agree with the Bible Party in places like the South, so it could become a reality in the distnt future that someone from this or a similar group is elected, but that's an entirely different debate. Anyway, should the majority decide to elect someon who holds their values, this person, should hold office, whether those values are of a religious nature or not. That's democracy, the ideas of the majority must be represented over those of the minorities, but the minorities should be represented too, and be treated fairly and equally. Though the rules of the Constitution were held highly by our founding fathers, they probably held higher the idea of overthrowing a government when it no longer serves most of it's people well, even the system that they created. The majority of the people should have majority representation simply because it is fair, so long as they uphold the ideas of freedom and equality.

The Bible Party can do this. If by some miracle, they get the majority of people to join them, they should be able to reflect their views and the views of the people, which simply happen to be influenced by their religious beliefs as are the views of almost everyone, on the policy that they make, as long as they don't establish an official religion.
0 Replies
 
rugonnacry
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2007 11:49 am
@Reagaknight,
I was actually paying you a respect asking that you do that. But then the first line of your response oozed with ignorant disdain (Much like mine is right now) SO I did not bother to finsih the read. Good job making your point.
0 Replies
 
 

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