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Bible Party of the USA

 
 
Silverchild79
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 01:45 pm
@Volunteer,
Volunteer;15883 wrote:
One example of the falacy of your statement: The Judicial branch makes laws every day.


BAHAHAHAHAHAHA

the judicial branch doesn't make any laws, they set legal precedents and determine the validity of laws made by the Legislative Branch, which is the only government body who can radify bills which are then signed into law.

The Executive branch can submit bills to be considered and veto ratified bills. Other then a Veto overturn the Executive branch is the only power which can sign a bill into law.

The Judicial branch can consider current laws against the Constitution and overturn any law which violates the higher law (the constitution). But it cannot submit bills for consideration nor veto a ratified bill, nor sign it into law. Only consider ,overturn, or uphold...

you may want to educate yourself on how checks and balances work, I would suggest that "The Bible Party of the USA" is by it's name, a concept which violates the Constitution.
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 01:48 pm
@Silverchild79,
Silverchild79;15886 wrote:
you, conveniently, misunderstood me...

I'll try again

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"

means that congressmen can't make any laws respecting an establishment of religion. The only people who would attempt to make such laws are lawmakers with a religious agenda, hence my saying "tell the church to stay out of the government" remark


We are perpetuating the same argument that's been going on since before the document's ink began to dry. This line was to preclude government from establishing a state religion.

The Bible Party is not designed to create a state religion. To say so is quite a leap.
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 01:52 pm
@Volunteer,
The Executive Branch can't introduce a bill, only a member of Congress can. A member of Congress who agrees with the branch can introduce the bill.

And religious people have the right to be involved in politics and make choices based on their religion.
0 Replies
 
Silverchild79
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 01:54 pm
@Volunteer,
okay, the president can "submit" a bill, not introduce it.

still, try to get your bill onto the senate floor lol
0 Replies
 
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 01:54 pm
@Silverchild79,
Silverchild79;15889 wrote:
BAHAHAHAHAHAHA

the judicial branch doesn't make any laws, they set legal precedents and determine the validity of laws made by the Legislative Branch, which is the only government body who can radify bills which are then signed into law.

The Executive branch can submit bills to be considered and veto ratified bills. Other then a Veto overturn the Executive branch is the only power which can sign a bill into law.

The Judicial branch can consider current laws against the Constitution and overturn any law which violates the higher law (the constitution). But it cannot submit bills for consideration nor veto a ratified bill, nor sign it into law. Only consider ,overturn, or uphold...

you may want to educate yourself on how checks and balances work, I would suggest that "The Bible Party of the USA" is by it's name, a concept which violates the Constitution.


The judicial branch has a type of line item veto. They change laws by eliminating portions of laws as unconstitutional. They do not always throw out the whole law. This process creates a law different from those passed by the leg branch and signed into law by the exec. If they say something like evangelizing is unconstitutional, they are making a law that prohibits evangelizing. To me, that means they make laws.
Silverchild79
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 01:55 pm
@Volunteer,
Volunteer;15890 wrote:
We are perpetuating the same argument that's been going on since before the document's ink began to dry. This line was to preclude government from establishing a state religion.

The Bible Party is not designed to create a state religion. To say so is quite a leap.


So what, no state religion, just laws passed forbidding gay marriage, abortion, stem cell research, any anything and everything the Bible is against because it is wrong by biblical standards?

how is that not a state religion?
Silverchild79
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 01:56 pm
@Volunteer,
Volunteer;15894 wrote:
The judicial branch has a type of line item veto. They change laws by eliminating portions of laws as unconstitutional. They do not always throw out the whole law. This process creates a law different from those passed by the leg branch and signed into law by the exec. If they say something like evangelizing is unconstitutional, they are making a law that prohibits evangelizing. To me, that means they make laws.


wait but just a second ago you said they made laws? are you back peddling?
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 01:59 pm
@Silverchild79,
Silverchild79;15896 wrote:
wait but just a second ago you said they made laws? are you back peddling?


No, the process described is the process of making laws. When you change something, you are making something new.
0 Replies
 
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 02:01 pm
@Silverchild79,
Silverchild79;15895 wrote:
So what, no state religion, just laws passed ...any anything and everything the Bible is against because it is wrong by biblical standards?

how is that not a state religion?




What is the difference between that and the process now in place in which atheists and secular humanists force their values and modes of behavior on the rest of us through the legislative and judicial processes?
0 Replies
 
Silverchild79
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 02:01 pm
@Volunteer,
nice attempt
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 02:04 pm
@Silverchild79,
Silverchild79;15899 wrote:
nice attempt


You didn't answer the question. How is it different?
0 Replies
 
Silverchild79
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 02:08 pm
@Volunteer,
it's different because it's legally a law when the court does it

sort of a government buyers remorse

in some cases laws are on the books for years before they're stricken down, and people are punished for not obeying them during that time period.

in the event of a veto it never becomes law, there is no "legal exposure" to the public

it's actually very different
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 02:13 pm
@Silverchild79,
Silverchild79;15901 wrote:
it's different because it's legally a law when the court does it

sort of a government buyers remorse

in some cases laws are on the books for years before they're stricken down, and people are punished for not obeying them during that time period.

in the event of a veto it never becomes law, there is no "legal exposure" to the public

it's actually very different


In case you didn't noitce, I'm not a lawyer.

An effect is the same despite the intent behind the action that initiated the effect. If judicial action has the effect of making a new law or changing the application of a law from that envisioned by the legislature that passed the law, then the judicial branch has made a new law. A rose by any other name...
0 Replies
 
Silverchild79
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 02:17 pm
@Volunteer,
it's not making a law it's removing one and that is different

let me brake it down for you in elementary speak

-=+ ?

no
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 02:21 pm
@Silverchild79,
Silverchild79;15903 wrote:
it's not making a law it's removing one and that is different

let me brake it down for you in elementary speak

-=+ ?

no


Like I said, the effect is the same.
0 Replies
 
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 02:26 pm
@Silverchild79,
Quote:
Originally stated by Silverchild79 "Congress shall make no law with respect to Religion"

that equals no religious laws and no laws based on religion by the Constitution.

how exactly is that not separation of church and state?


This post from another part of the forum, indicates your true interpretation of the subject article. The artlicle does not say what you assert. You have dropped critical words. Read it as it is written and you'll have a better understanding. Same goes for the Bible.
0 Replies
 
Silverchild79
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 02:51 pm
@Volunteer,
and here is what the founding fathers, the ones you say would roll over in there graves, had to say on the rality of Seperation of Church and State

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c174/Silverchild79/eternalhostility.jpg
0 Replies
 
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 03:01 pm
@Silverchild79,
Quote:
Thomas Jefferson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While the debate over Jefferson's understanding over the separation of Church and state is far from being settled, as are his particular religious tenets, his dependence on divine Providence is not nearly as ambiguous. As he stated, in his second inaugural address:

“ I shall need, too, the favor of that Being in whose hands we are, who led our fathers, as Israel of old, from their native land and planted them in a country flowing with all the necessaries and comforts of life; who has covered our infancy with His providence and our riper years with His wisdom and power, and to whose goodness I ask you to join in supplications with me that He will so enlighten the minds of your servants, guide their councils, and prosper their measures that whatsoever they do shall result in your good, and shall secure to you the peace, friendship, and approbation of all nations ”


This quote sure sounds like good old TJ expected and wanted God's (the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob) counsel in government.
0 Replies
 
Volunteer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 03:08 pm
@Silverchild79,
Silverchild79,

Why do you and your liberal bretheren keep citing Jefferson's letter as justifying a prohibition of influence from religion in state affairs when his intent was to reassure the Baptists that the Church of England or the Catholic Church would not become the state religion of the USA? These are two different subjects. Making both the same is a form of lying.

Don't you see the falacy?
0 Replies
 
Silverchild79
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 May, 2007 03:22 pm
@Volunteer,
one

I'm not a liberal, I'm a Moderate Republican, who supports the Iraq war, I even voted for Bush twice. Just because you have to look to your left to see me doesn't mean I'm liberal, you're not exactly standing on the dividing line...

two

because he was against influence by religion is state affairs, he affirms this by his own words. I'm sorry if that isn't convenient to you and your cause but if he was here today he would oppose The Bible Party of the USA. If the founding fathers wanted that kind of government that's what they would have forged. But even John Adam's, a puritan, didn't want this. Even if both of them were very much Christian in their own lives.

It is not uncommon for men to seek the council of God in such difficult times, even if the task being done is not solely for religious reasons...
 

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