A Child's Abortion

@xris,

xris;75720 wrote:

As we dont agree on what dogma actually means even though it is clearly defined by your reference to an RC link we are at an impasse.

Sure, because you've decided on a definition of dogma which suits your side of the debate (behaviour, beliefs or values believed by or expected of 'good' Catholics to be dictated to them by their interpretation of the bible) and are unwilling to cede that you are not using the definition as commonly understood (behaviour, beliefs or values believed by or expected of 'good' Catholics to be dictated to them by the vatican).

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@Dave Allen,

Dave Allen;75859 wrote:

Sure, because you've decided on a definition of dogma which suits your side of the debate (behaviour, beliefs or values believed by or expected of 'good' Catholics to be dictated to them by their interpretation of the bible) and are unwilling to cede that you are not using the definition as commonly understood (behaviour, beliefs or values believed by or expected of 'good' Catholics to be dictated to them by the vatican).

I am using the reference made by Tom in his post, it was him who directed me to it.Haveyou read it?

---------- Post added 07-08-2009 at 03:59 AM ----------

Aedes;75741 wrote:

Please read these links. :sarcastic: I don't claim that their apologies are sufficient -- but this should effectively disabuse your points that the church is incapable of critical reflection.

Online NewsHour: A Papal Apology, March 13, 2000

Apologies by Pope John Paul II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From the Wikipedia article I've linked

There is a difference in appologising for known admitted mistakes but those i refer to have never been admitted to nor will they open their books for examination.As an organisation they are never held legally responsible for their actions or their dogma.
When they act in manner that convinces me their intentions are just an reasonable i will respect them.Many of their mistakes and continued wrongs are not accepted by them as being wrong so one mans appology does not reconcile my feelings for them.I will not applogise for my feelings as i find them utterly heartless in their approach to contraceptives and abortion.Millions suffer by their dogma and my crusade against them will continue.Thanks for your attempt at mediation but you have, i am afraid a man on a mission.

1 Reply

@xris,

xris;75865 wrote:

I am using the reference made by Tom in his post, it was him who directed me to it.Haveyou read it?

This one?
DOGMA

Doctrine taught by the Church [1] to be believed by all the faithful as part of divine revelation. All dogmas, therefore, are formally revealed truths and promulgated as such by the Church. they are revealed either in Scripture or tradition [2], either explicitly (as the Incarnation) or implicitly (as the Assumption). Moreover, their acceptance by the faithful must be proposed as necessary for salvation. they may be taught by the Church in a solemn manner, as with the definition of the Immaculate Conception, or in an ordinary way, as with the constant teaching on the malice of taking innocent human life.

[1] The Church - so it's from the vatican rather than the bible.

[2] Either scrpiture or tradition - so whilst the bible might be an inspiration it need not be the only one.

So changing dogma - for example - geocentrism was inspired by biblical verses about the position of the Earth, but then overturned when it became clear Gallileo's explanations were better than geocentric ones.

1 Reply

@Dave Allen,

Dave Allen;75880 wrote:

This one?
DOGMA

Doctrine taught by the Church [1] to be believed by all the faithful as part of divine revelation. All dogmas, therefore, are formally revealed truths and promulgated as such by the Church. they are revealed either in Scripture or tradition [2], either explicitly (as the Incarnation) or implicitly (as the Assumption). Moreover, their acceptance by the faithful must be proposed as necessary for salvation. they may be taught by the Church in a solemn manner, as with the definition of the Immaculate Conception, or in an ordinary way, as with the constant teaching on the malice of taking innocent human life.

[1] The Church - so it's from the vatican rather than the bible.

[2] Either scrpiture or tradition - so whilst the bible might be an inspiration it need not be the only one.

So changing dogma - for example - geocentrism was inspired by biblical verses about the position of the Earth, but then overturned when it became clear Gallileo's explanations were better than geocentric ones.

No, clearly not scripture but many had to die before it was admitted.If you want to claim that as a change in dogmatic views by overwhelming evidence,then yes i admit it is an arguable example.I thought or believed we are talking about dogma in the sense it has to be accepted and adhered to for salvation.I dont think its relevant to say believing the world to be the centre of the universe was or is essential for salvation.If that is what you thought the catholic dogma was describing so be it but i would disagree.

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@No0ne,

No0ne;52767 wrote:

Today I seen a segment on cable new's of a a 9-year old child that was raped by her step father and developed twin's. The doctors had told the mother and child that she would die from the pregency.

There family are catholic's and the vatican had ex-comunicated the mother and the child for choosing to have an abortion.

What are your thoughts of this matter?

Well I wont comment on what I think, yet I will say what "Jesus" would say to the vatican..

For ye hath forsakend them, for they hath condemned the two to death...
For shall I forsake ye?
For surly ye hath condemned the girl to death...

**** jesus firstly.

Secondly i apologise for my rude response but i am very angry about this particular topic for 2 reasons

1 My girlfriend was raped by her father when she was 14 and he is up for 12 separate counts of abuse and drug related crimes, thanks to him my girlfriend has 6 years of therapy scheduled and she has had to move counties and give evidence in september.

2 Yesterday (the day before her birthday) My girlfriend undergone an abortion after 11 weeks of pregnancy (it was mine). We are both fairly indifferent as it was nessesary as she is 17 and has a big future ahead of her, her mother is predominantly catholic so we had to do it in secrecy as if it was the 18th century but all is well.
I do feel like **** about the whole thing but things would be worse if we had kept it.

In the clinic i was waiting for her to come out when a couple next to me recieved news that they had lost their baby. She lost her child unintentionally and we terminated ours. I dont want to read any theories on "God" telling me some pro life after school special, or any judgements on the matter as I am already confused enough, but i wanted my story heard, maybe so people could think about someone they know better than a news story.

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A Child's Abortion

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