A Child's Abortion

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Today I seen a segment on cable new's of a a 9-year old child that was raped by her step father and developed twin's. The doctors had told the mother and child that she would die from the pregency.

There family are catholic's and the vatican had ex-comunicated the mother and the child for choosing to have an abortion.

What are your thoughts of this matter?

Well I wont comment on what I think, yet I will say what "Jesus" would say to the vatican..

For ye hath forsakend them, for they hath condemned the two to death...
For shall I forsake ye?
For surly ye hath condemned the girl to death...

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@No0ne,

Some news results:

Bishop punishes mom for girl's abortion - Americas- msnbc.com
Vatican defends Brazil excommunication - Yahoo!7 News

From what I've read, I'm with the Brazilian president on this one.

1 Reply

@Didymos Thomas,

Wow, what an unbelievable editorial of injustice.

1 Reply

@Khethil,

Sad story very sad about the real trauma created for this mother and daughter. However, if it is true to the doctrine what choice does the Church have? The Pope would have to decree that "hey God changed his mind!" and he might not want to do that, or God may not be speaking to him at the moment.

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@GoshisDead,

I wonder if that part of life is covered in the Bible. I think my views may be to crude for this thread I will watch a little bit be fore commenting. I do sympathize for the family though. That is a knife that will cut for centuries.

1 Reply

@savagemonk,

I'm not a Catholic, and I certainly do not understand all of the workings of the Church; however, I was raised Episcopalian. The ArchBishop of Canterbury, the head priest if you will, has written a wonderful treatise on why his Church should embrace homosexual parishioners. It's a treatise on tolerance from a thoughtful theologian. I can't help but wonder why the Catholic Church cannot bring itself to make similar reevaluations.

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@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas wrote:

I'm not a Catholic, and I certainly do not understand all of the workings of the Church; however, I was raised Episcopalian. The ArchBishop of Canterbury, the head priest if you will, has written a wonderful treatise on why his Church should embrace homosexual parishioners. It's a treatise on tolerance from a thoughtful theologian. I can't help but wonder why the Catholic Church cannot bring itself to make similar reevaluations.

I'm dumbfounded whenever I hear a church discriminate against homosexuals. I think, "HUH?! I thought they were advocating equality and love". Instead, they discriminate against another human due to sexual preference?! It just perplexes me.

I hope the ArchBishop you speak of has influence, and begins talking some sense into people.

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@Zetherin,

Zetherin wrote:

I'm dumbfounded whenever I hear a church discriminate against homosexuals. I think, "HUH?! I thought they were advocating equality and love". Instead, they discriminate against another human due to sexual preference?! It just perplexes me.

I hope the ArchBishop you speak of has influence, and begins talking some sense into people.

Probably a biblical thing. Regardless of that, I tend to agree with you.

1 Reply

@Elmud,

He is the ArchBishop of Canterbury: one of the most powerful churchmen alive. He has been and continues to talk sense. Oh, but his Church has had a tough several years. Incidentally, my old minister (from youth, when I rejected Christianity) was a good friend of the Archbishop's; they went to school together in Wales.

1 Reply

@Didymos Thomas,

I am far from Catholic and am pro-choice. I think that sums up my views on the matter.

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@No0ne,

It's interesting isn't it..? The course of action taken by the girl (and her mother) saved the life of the girl and prevented the death of both the girl and her child. Most pro-lifers, as their name suggests, insist on right to live as the fundamental assumption of their position. In this case, the right to live was upheld. Now... the bible says nothing about abortion, thus this is not an issue of sin but of disobeying the church: the church is yielding authority in ways that have nothing to do with their actual religion. They made the rule to protect souls, and excommunicated two members for... protecting souls.

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@Bones-O,

Quote:

Battista Re agreed, saying: "Excommunication for those who carried out the abortion is just" as a pregnancy termination always meant ending an innocent life.

Quote:

He also said the accused stepfather would not be expelled from the church. Although the man allegedly committed "a heinous crime ... the abortion - the elimination of an innocent life - was more serious".

What is going on here?

This is what happens when people alienate themselves from the subjective nature of right and wrong. I cannot believe that these church officials can believe in such justice at their core.

1 Reply

@Mr Fight the Power,

I know this doesn't caount much in the current environment of humanism, but according to the Church's doctrine the girl dying during pregancy would make her a martyr of sorts. Guaranteed access to the best parts of the afterlife.

1 Reply

@GoshisDead,

Quote:

Guaranteed access to the best parts of the afterlife.

If such an afterlife exists. How horrible it would be if she were to be forced to die for nothing...

1 Reply

@Parapraxis,

In the event that there is no afterlife, don't we all die for nothing.

1 Reply

@GoshisDead,

Quote:

In the event that there is no afterlife, don't we all die for nothing.

Not necessarily.

1 Reply

@Parapraxis,

Whether or not there is an afterlife is not a doctrinal issue, according to the catholic church there is an afterlife, within the internal logic of their doctrine, a girl dying to obey a doctrinal point is noble and she and i bet her mother, would be rewarded accordingly in the eternities. Is the church really at fault of something aside from standing contrary to current ethical tendencies?

Also if someone is arguing that there is no afterlife and/or the catholic church is wrong for doing this (making the church wrong about more than just this etc... isn't excommunication more of a blessing to this family than anything?

1 Reply

@GoshisDead,

Quote:

Whether or not there is an afterlife is not a doctrinal issue, according to the catholic church there is an afterlife, within the internal logic of their doctrine, a girl dying to obey a doctrinal point is noble and she and i bet her mother, would be rewarded accordingly in the eternities. Is the church really at fault of something aside from standing contrary to current ethical tendencies?

Yes. They are at fault for promoting the view, that despite it will cause her death, a girl should not have an abortion based on no reason (that is to say, no rational reason). They are not allowing an individual to exercise her right to life and instead effectively saying "You should die". Why do two unborn children have more of a right to live than her?

2 Replies

@Parapraxis,

I understand this was posted because someone was disgusted with the edict, and rightly so, it is a sad sad thing, yet it is basically an ethical issue stemming from abortion rights in general. Whether it be rights of a 9 year old versus that of a 45 year old, the situation would be the same. Both females in danger of losing their life. Albeit the 9 year old is less equipped to make the choice for herself, the church would still say bad, and the person in charge of the abortion choice would still make that decision. Calls for condemnation of the Church for the edict have no more validity than calls for condemnation fo the Church for being against abortion rights as a whole. The person in my opinion who is the Hero, and I'm sure in some other people's opinion the villian, is the mother. It was her decision and although it was likely traumatic for her she and her daughter will likely grow from it in positive directions.

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@Parapraxis,

For a church to even deem themselves worthy of making the decision that someone should live is ridiculous anyway. I would take it as a blessing to have been excommunicated from such a group that would kill me to protect their image.

No man, woman, or pope has the stand to decide life. If it was truthfully god's will then the girl and associating parties would have been judged properly by "god himself".

The step father should be raped and killed if anyone is going to die. I personally would not let my 9 year old daughter have the memorabilia of being raped around for 60 something years. It is hard enough to deal with the fact that it happened. Now they want her to nourish what came from it. That just goes to show that the churches are full of junk. What is worse killing an embryo or torturing a little girl?

Where is the divine intervention when you need it. I know I may be crewed in my statements. But this kind of stuff irritates me. I know that anyone who states that they have the answers to life, is dishonest and egotistical. How can any church be so lost in their dilution of the answers to life. That the wouldn't break face to prevent a death. They all should be excommunicated from earth. I don't hate them though they are only human. Trying to interpret the universe through stories and miss guided beliefs.

I am done ranting thanks for reading. Just be glad I am not president. OR pope for that matter. Laughing

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A Child's Abortion

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