A Child's Abortion

Can you unpack that some, especially the last part? I'm not sure I see it with respect to this case. Doesn't racism in effect deal with the metaphysical issue of personhood? Also, presuming you meant metaphysical in a more religious sense, I think that point is debatable historically, if that is really what you were driving at.

Hello Phronimos

When i was speaking on the issue of excommunication, It was in the context of Catholic doctrine and practice. Their rules and regulations. Religion is a group that practices their metaphysical beliefs through these. One when subscribes to these beliefs in agreement they join the group in support and practice. If someone is excommunicated, it is to make their actions pertaining to the practice of those beliefs worthless. If you remove that grouping it also is meant to remove support in that person or persons. It is debateable on individual circumstance, but that is the general concensus.

Aspects of racism does relate to the topic in personhood and beliefs but is hardly what I was focusing on. If the indvidual does not subscribe to Catholic beliefs, then Racism is just a loaded word to explain sepperation. But if the person does not recognise that it is just a gathering of beliefs under a system of rules and such then that word really doesnt matter. If they do wish to participate, then yes it is racism if your talking about sepperation and countless relateable words.

My issue is with people making Religion so definitive in life that it will implie racism to those who do not adhere to its characteristics.

Sorry, perhaps I was unclear. What I meant by bringing up racism was that racism was an example of something that I think most people would classify as unjust regardless of the target's (probably a minority's) feelings, beliefs, attitudes toward it. For instance, if X didn't mind Y referring to him by malicious racial slurs and Y treating X malicious, I still think that we would consider X's conduct morally wrong. I think the same comparison applies in this case. Even if the girl didn't care and moved on, I still think we would consider the Bishop's conduct immoral. I don't think my view has to require this being the case, but in the Brazilian girl's case I do think excommunication likely carries consequences beyond her participation in the catholic church and this does strike me as important.

Given that the girl in question is 9 years old to what extent can we say that she is responsible for participating in the Roman Catholic system?

I am far from Catholic and am pro-choice. I think that sums up my views on the matter.

Personally, I would hope that the present Banker Cartel puppeteers now running pres #44, and his "elected" goon squad in Congress cannot get their agenda past We the People, and are destroyed, but, Creator is explicit in detail for this End Day when 99% of humanity is too arrogant to submit their ways and wills to His truth, and substitute for His Love, hideous, forbidden practices such as homosexuality, unborn murders, and license for Liberty.

Why are so-called "pro-choice" promoters anti-un-born choice?

Are they saying unborn humans are un-equal human beings?

In reality, they are telling the rest of us, who were at one point, unborn - unbirthed - pre-born, and whatever else such murderers use to distance themselves from the fact they murder human blood, and very often, sentient human blood, as with the reactions of the unborn to the ripping apart of their helpless, trusting bodies, or chemical burning of same, to attempt justification for their assuming that they are superior humans.

We have a liar as president, because these same predjudiced, bigotted people have so bloated themselves with self-esteem, that they are easily susceptible to believing hogwash media hyperbole. We as a nation of sheeple have decided we are superior to all other residents of earth, and we can now call others "Third-world-ees."

If there be no Creator, as these blind enemies of equality claim,

then we still deserve to be soon wiped off the face of earth, as the elitists now running the U.S. government have openly spoken of doing - purging 99% of humans from earth

Death is preferable to living with those who refuse to honor Creator as the Sovdreign He is, and that is why our nation's forebears said in individual words and acts, "Give me lawful liberty, or I will die preferring it to your immoral enslavements!"

[URL="javascript:openWindow('cr/2270.htm');"]2270[/URL] Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.72
Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you.73 My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth.74

2271 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law:
You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish.75 God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves. Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.76

[URL="javascript:openWindow('cr/2272.htm');"]2272[/URL] Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,"77 "by the very commission of the offense,"78 and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law.79 The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.

[URL="javascript:openWindow('cr/2273.htm');"]2273[/URL] The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation:

"The inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority. These human rights depend neither on single individuals nor on parents; nor do they represent a concession made by society and the state; they belong to human nature and are inherent in the person by virtue of the creative act from which the person took his origin. Among such fundamental rights one should mention in this regard every human being's right to life and physical integrity from the moment of conception until death."80

"The moment a positive law deprives a category of human beings of the protection which civil legislation ought to accord them, the state is denying the equality of all before the law. When the state does not place its power at the service of the rights of each citizen, and in particular of the more vulnerable, the very foundations of a state based on law are undermined. . . . As a consequence of the respect and protection which must be ensured for the unborn child from the moment of conception, the law must provide appropriate penal sanctions for every deliberate violation of the child's rights."81

2274 Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being.

Prenatal diagnosis is morally licit, "if it respects the life and integrity of the embryo and the human fetus and is directed toward its safe guarding or healing as an individual. . . . It is gravely opposed to the moral law when this is done with the thought of possibly inducing an abortion, depending upon the results: a diagnosis must not be the equivalent of a death sentence."82

2275 "One must hold as licit procedures carried out on the human embryo which respect the life and integrity of the embryo and do not involve disproportionate risks for it, but are directed toward its healing the improvement of its condition of health, or its individual survival."83

"It is immoral to produce human embryos intended for exploitation as disposable biological material."84

"Certain attempts to influence chromosomic or genetic inheritance are not therapeutic but are aimed at producing human beings selected according to sex or other predetermined qualities. Such manipulations are contrary to the personal dignity of the human being and his integrity and identity"85 which are unique and unrepeatable.

Here is a paradox:
Not having an abortion is suicide if your life is on the line. Suicide is a sin because you are playing god. Having an abortion is a sin because it involves killing. So you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Is god testing our resolve? Perhaps he would favor not having an abortion because the child is defenseless, but why then would you put this huge burden on the mother, god? I am questioning god's intentions. Call me a sinner, but it doesn't make sense that god would do such a thing.

I am Catholic but that doesn't mean I have to be on god's side all of the time.

Insofar as they are pro-choice, they deviate from Catholic belief. The Catholic Faith has a very, very clear doctrine on the matter. Insofar as they are pro-choice, they are heretics, and they should not be receiving holy communion. Heresy carries a penalty of excommunication latae sententiae (sp?).

Well, that is pretty much archaic dogma that carries no real weight anymore. Very few Catholics I know follow the dogma to a T, and most would find a new church or denomination if they were excommunicated for superstitious beliefs.