26
   

Why are people against homosexuality?

 
 
Diest TKO
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 1 Feb, 2010 07:37 am
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:

In my opinion, evolution has included sexuality in the design of humans and other animals as a way of producing offspring. Incidentally, I do not take that to mean that sex cannot be performed for fun too. Anyway, this being the case, I believe that homosexuality is the result of a malfunction of some sort. The mechanism causing the disorder will probably be explicitly identified some day. I know that no one asks for what he is born with, and I want everyone to get what he needs to be happy, but that does not extend to laws which would explicitly or implicitly endorse homosexuality as normal.


Laws don't decide what is natural, nature does, and nature shows us plenty of homosexuality across many species. This thread is not about legal matters. It is about why people are against it (not what they think should be done). The endorsement of natural is irrelevant. What people who are against homosexuality want to prevent any endorsement that humanizes homosexuals and validates their relationship to be as profound and meaningful as any heterosexual one.

So what happens is that all homosexuals are reduced to this...
http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Science/Images/Gay-Pride-Parade.jpg

or this...
http://www.facebook.com/profile/pic.php?oid=AAAAAQAQYVQCoAWW9yfFsrbe89xECQAAAAqy3772NUlAlACddjosKt4_

and certainly never like this...
http://lolabrigada.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/gay-family.jpg

or this...
http://www.kpikephoto.com/blogpics/z20.jpg

or even this...
http://www.thehollywoodnews.com/thn/assets_c/2009/10/iian_mckellen-thumb-480x319-2149.jpg

Because, if people were to see homosexuals in human terms like family and love, then they might *gasp* grow to identify with them and gain sympathy/empathy.

Being a heterosexual doesn't reduce me to my sexual habit and overshadow the other elements of my identity: Engineer, writer, artist, traveler. I see no reason to rob others of the same courtesy.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Mon 1 Feb, 2010 07:38 am
@Diest TKO,
Well, u c, if 2 guys get together, that's gross n foul because guys r repugnant.
djjd62
 
  0  
Reply Mon 1 Feb, 2010 07:39 am
in my mind when homosexuality and or celibacy become the only sexual practice for humankind, the planet will be a better place

well within a couple of generations anyway



Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Mon 1 Feb, 2010 07:45 am
It cracks me up that DTKO posted a picture of Gandalf from the second LoTR movie. I really cracked up once when a comedian referred to those movies as "Brokeback trilogy."
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 1 Feb, 2010 07:46 am
@OmSigDAVID,
David - I'm glad I know you. You provide me with written gems every day, every post.

I remember when my nephew was in preschool. He'd say the funniest things. They were always fun to repeat to others. My nephew got older and started to say less and less cute child-isms. Kids, they're only young for so long. They grow up so fast.

You'll never grow out of this cute phase, and bless you for that. You've been good today, here's a toy. I know you'll like it.

http://images2.cafemom.com/images/user/gallery/post_1492134_1238535862_med.jpg

You'll charm all the nurses the day you make it to adult daycare.

T
K
O
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Feb, 2010 07:47 am
@djjd62,
Well, I guess its good to know what 's in your mind.
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 1 Feb, 2010 07:53 am
@Diest TKO,
Diest TKO wrote:
David - I'm glad I know you. You provide me with written gems every day, every post.

http://images2.cafemom.com/images/user/gallery/post_1492134_1238535862_med.jpg

Thank u. Many decades ago,
I had one something like that. I might have been around 6.
I shoved 6 inch nails down the barrel.
After that, I switched to 1 inch sharp tacks, for better range n muzzle velocity.





David
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Mon 1 Feb, 2010 07:54 am
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:

I believe that homosexuality is the result of a malfunction of some sort. The mechanism causing the disorder will probably be explicitly identified some day. I know that no one asks for what he is born with, and I want everyone to get what he needs to be happy, but that does not extend to laws which would explicitly or implicitly endorse homosexuality as normal.

Homosexuality occurs in our population along the same order of magnitude as red hair. While red hair is unusual and genetic based, it is hardly abnormal and not a grounds for discrimination. Same for homosexuality. Laws do not need to "explicitly or implicitly endorse" homosexuality, but they should not explicitly or implicitly discriminate against it either.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Feb, 2010 07:58 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:

I believe that homosexuality is the result of a malfunction of some sort. The mechanism causing the disorder will probably be explicitly identified some day. I know that no one asks for what he is born with, and I want everyone to get what he needs to be happy, but that does not extend to laws which would explicitly or implicitly endorse homosexuality as normal.

Homosexuality occurs in our population along the same order of magnitude as red hair. While red hair is unusual and genetic based, it is hardly abnormal and not a grounds for discrimination. Same for homosexuality. Laws do not need to "explicitly or implicitly endorse" homosexuality, but they should not explicitly or implicitly discriminate against it either.
I support laissez faire free enterprize, freedom of contract.





David
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Mon 1 Feb, 2010 08:02 am
@Robert Gentel,
I would add to Robert's random thoughts that you cannot ignore the role of religion in bigotry against homosexuals. Recent efforts by mainline Protestant groups to increase homosexual participation in the church have been met with extreme resistance (see Anglican and Luthern churchs). That resistance is extremely vocal in saying that the Bible clearly calls out homosexuality as a sin. While this is often just a fig leaf for hateful behavior, there is also a clear religious component to it. Sitting in congregational meetings discussing the topic, I can also say that women are just as vocal (maybe more so) in their bigoted beliefs than men, they just don't get violent about it.
Diest TKO
 
  0  
Reply Mon 1 Feb, 2010 08:12 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
Sitting in congregational meetings discussing the topic, I can also say that women are just as vocal (maybe more so) in their bigoted beliefs than men, they just don't get violent about it.


I've met only a handful of female anti-gay types, and they weren't very vocal. I'm interested as to what you've seen that would make you say that you think they (the women in the congregation) can be equal or more vocal. Can you provide insight here for me? What types of things do they say? Mostly the same things or does it have a different theme? In your opinion, do they focus more on the homosexuality of either gender?

T
K
O
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Feb, 2010 08:13 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

Well, I guess its good to know what 's in your mind.


when i was a teenager all i wanted was to have sex with a girl/woman, i've done that, i've also realized i'm a crap boyfriend/mate, never wanted kids, so i'll take the celibacy route

if everyone followed suit, i guarantee the earth would be a paradise
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Mon 1 Feb, 2010 08:17 am
@engineer,
Religion is just one method/means of control that society used on it members and more then likely the dislike of homosexuality and the wish to suppress it happen to be hard wire into out very beings.

The cause and effect is being view backward when it come to homosexuality and religion. Most people do not dislike the very idea of homosexuality because such is build into our major religion faiths but instead the religion faiths dislike of this sexual disorder is only there because the human race had it build into our very genes.

As far as it being a natural condition of humans and other animals that is true however so is cancer and such conditions as diabetic.
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Mon 1 Feb, 2010 08:53 am
@Diest TKO,
Diest TKO wrote:

engineer wrote:
Sitting in congregational meetings discussing the topic, I can also say that women are just as vocal (maybe more so) in their bigoted beliefs than men, they just don't get violent about it.


I've met only a handful of female anti-gay types, and they weren't very vocal. I'm interested as to what you've seen that would make you say that you think they (the women in the congregation) can be equal or more vocal. Can you provide insight here for me? What types of things do they say? Mostly the same things or does it have a different theme? In your opinion, do they focus more on the homosexuality of either gender?

Some background: The Evangelical Luthern Church of America (largest US sect of Lutherns) recently adopted changes that said if pastors were in committed homosexual relationships, the church would not seek to defrock the pastor. Note that this did not condone homosexuality, nor equate homosexual relationships with marriage, only said that it recognized such relationships and would not defrock the pastor.
Quote:
This church recognizes that, with conviction and integrity:

* On the basis of conscience-bound belief, some are convinced that same-gender sexual behavior is sinful, contrary to biblical teaching and their understanding of natural law. They believe same-gender sexual behavior carries the grave danger of unrepentant sin. They therefore conclude that the neighbor and the community are best served by calling people in same-gender sexual relationships to repentance for that behavior and to a celibate lifestyle. Such decisions are intended to be accompanied by pastoral response and community support.

* On the basis of conscience-bound belief, some are convinced that homosexuality and even lifelong, monogamous, homosexual relationships reflect a broken world in which some relationships do not pattern themselves after the creation God intended. While they acknowledge that such relationships may be lived out with mutuality and care, they do not believe that the neighbor or community are best served by publicly recognizing such relationships as traditional marriage.

* On the basis of conscience-bound belief, some are convinced that the scriptural witness does not address the context of sexual orientation and lifelong loving and committed relationships that we experience today. They believe that the neighbor and community are best served when same-gender relationships are honored and held to high standards and public accountability, but they do not equate these relationships with marriage. They do, however, affirm the need for community support and the role of pastoral care and may wish to surround lifelong, monogamous relationships or covenant unions with prayer.

* On the basis of conscience-bound belief, some are convinced that the scriptural witness does not address the context of sexual orientation and committed relationships that we experience today. They believe that the neighbor and community are best served when same-gender relationships are lived out with lifelong and monogamous commitments that are held to the same rigorous standards, sexual ethics, and status as heterosexual marriage. They surround such couples and their lifelong commitments with prayer to live in ways that glorify God, find strength for the challenges that will be faced, and serve others. They believe same-gender couples should avail themselves of social and legal support for themselves, their children, and other dependents and seek the highest legal accountability available for their relationships.

Although at this time this church lacks consensus on this matter, it encourages all people to live out their faith in the local and global community of the baptized with profound respect for the conscience-bound belief of the neighbor. This church calls for mutual respect in relationships and for guidance that seeks the good of each individual and of the community. Regarding our life together as we live with disagreement, the people in this church will continue to accompany one another in study, prayer, discernment, pastoral care, and mutual respect.

The statement was approved along a vote of 55-45% (may be off a percent or so, I do this from memory), so there was a significant minority in disagreement. Prior to the vote (but when the writing was on the wall), a group formed to schism the church. This group (Luthern Core) is encouraging congregations to withold funds from the ELCA and to form a separate body within the ELCA "to be a voice for the Word of God within the church." The pastor at my church is dramatically opposed to the ELCA's position and wants to bring the church into the Luthern Core circle. He has preached against the "liberal agenda" from the pulpit and in his email communications for the last few years and has stepped up his rhetoric since the ELCA decision. The sad part is that he is divorced and remarried, but doesn't see any conflict with Biblical admonishments against divorce, nor does he see any corollary to the Luthern position on women pastors, another thing that is prohibited in the Bible.

Enough background. We held a congregational meeting to discuss the ELCA decision. While 55% of the ELCA at large supported the decision, I live in a conservative "red state" area. At that meeting, people were encouraged to come up and share their thoughts. I'd say supporters of the ELCA decision were outnumbered four or five to one although I believe the silent majorty is more balanced. In this atmosphere of support, many of the those expressing disagreement were very frank in their thoughts and they weren't pleasant. I'd estimate that women speakers against allowing hom0sexual pastors outnumbered men two to one and were very direct in their statements that homosexuals were ignoring God's law and were leading people into sin. I'd also say that when couples were present, the woman was almost always the more outspoken and vehement in her outrage. One of the most depressing speeches was of a woman describing how she really loved her gay son and his partner, but he was breaking God's law and going to hell.

One a slightly related topic, I've found that I'm much more likely to get an anti-liberal or anti-homosexual email forwarded to me from a woman than a man. My personal take is that women feel just as strongly as men about their bigotries, but they are not as willing to be confrontational about it, so you don't see it unless you are in situation where they feel everyone shares their views.
Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Mon 1 Feb, 2010 09:03 am
@BillRM,
A breath-taking display of bullshit. There is not only no evidence that it is "hard-wired," the historical and ethnological evidence is that tolerance of homosexuality is the commonplace, and the condemnation of it is the anomaly. I defy either Brandon or the idiot Bill to provide a shred of evidence that there is any genetic predisposition to abhor homosexuality.

Both Brandon and Bill start from an assumption that homosexuality is "unnatural," and proceed from there to rationalizations of their point of view. I suggest that their points of view are conditioned by centuries of religiously motivated prejudice, and all we see here are exercises in justifying their respective bigotries.
aidan
 
  2  
Reply Mon 1 Feb, 2010 09:08 am
@Setanta,
And who exactly has sanctioned and codified religions in society - even as a Christian I realize it's not God - - guess what? It's people!!!

That's my thought process spelled out as clearly as I possibly can for you. You don't believe there's a god - but you do know there are religions....right? So where did the anti-homosexual stance come from? Hello? PEOPLE!

Whether it's hardwired or not - it's ******* there. You can blame everything on religion and government and whatever the hell you want but guess what those entitities are representative and made up of??? The wishes and beliefs of PEOPLE!

And I will NEVER tolerate or excuse bigotry in Christians or anyone else. Anyone who engages in that in my mind is not a Christian.
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  3  
Reply Mon 1 Feb, 2010 09:17 am
@Diest TKO,
Quote:
Why does the discussion on homosexuality default to homosexual men? It seems like discussion on homosexual relationships is so rarely about relationships and almost entirely about the fear of butt sex.


I think it has to do with the fact that the majority of men look at penetration as something to be avoided while to most women it's simply a fact of life.
Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Mon 1 Feb, 2010 09:18 am
A completely irrelevant, hysterical outburst. I've not attempted to blame "god" for any of this, for the good and sufficient reason that religions are created by humans, and there is no plausible evidence for the existence of any "god" on whom to blame such behavior.

That doesn't alter the point i am making. That point is that in the ancient world from which western civilization springs, the only prominent instance of homophobia was in Judaism. The Egyptian, Greek, Hellenistic and Roman worlds tolerated or even celebrated homosexuality. It was not until the narrow-minded, hateful bigotries of Judaism began to spread, either as confessional Judaism, or as Christianity, that this attitude was buried under a mound of hatred.

At no time have i denied that people are responsible for this culture of hate.
Diest TKO
 
  0  
Reply Mon 1 Feb, 2010 09:28 am
@engineer,
Thanks Engy. I had never thought about the confrontational element before being a difference that might effect observable behaviors.

What about the focus of homosexuality? Did these women who condemned it tend to rely on examples of men in homosexual relationships? Did anyone specifically use a female example?

T
K
O
Diest TKO
 
  0  
Reply Mon 1 Feb, 2010 09:32 am
@aidan,
aidan wrote:

Quote:
Why does the discussion on homosexuality default to homosexual men? It seems like discussion on homosexual relationships is so rarely about relationships and almost entirely about the fear of butt sex.


I think it has to do with the fact that the majority of men look at penetration as something to be avoided while to most women it's simply a fact of life.

What about you? Do you feel your brain defaults to a male homosexual when you think about homosexuals?

Let's say just women are talking about homosexuality, does this discussion mostly employ examples of men or women?

Thanks
K
O
 

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