Homosexuality- a christian perspective on 'love.'

Reply Tue 12 Aug, 2008 10:16 am
I origionaly posted this on the relationship and marriage board, but I'm going to post it here too.
I was wondering if a christian could possibly answer the following for me:

Obviously christianity condemns homosexuality, but what does it actually condemn? The act of sex, or the act of love?
And by love I don't mean friendship, father/son love, comradeship, admiration, warrior bonds between men or anything similar.
I mean the sort of love that is usually found inside a relationship.
Imagine a non-consummated relationship between a boy and girl, perhaps the sort of a couple who are enaged, but between two men.
What does christianity say of this? Why is this sort of love wrong?

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Type: Discussion • Score: 39 • Views: 31,657 • Replies: 223

Reply Tue 12 Aug, 2008 12:41 pm
I don't know where you got the idea that "obviously" Christianity "condemns homosexuality", because it doesn't, not all of the Christian church. Don't you read the papers? If you live in South-east London, you can't be too far from Lambeth.
Reply Wed 13 Aug, 2008 03:17 am
I actually thought That was the case too? That For christians being gay was a "Sin" Or u were gonna go to hell or something.Isnt that **** in the bible? can someone clarify?

I just googled it and Most says its not a "sin" but an "abommanation to God" .....Apples to oranges in my opinion....
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Reply Wed 13 Aug, 2008 06:16 am
There are several varying views on homosexuality within the realm of Christian beliefs.

Those who are most ardently against homosexuality usually rely on two passages from the bible:

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination" (Leviticus 18:22)

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them" (Leviticus 20:13)

Both of these speak to homosexual acts as opposed to thoughts/desires. There are serveral aspects to these though. There are homosexual acts themselves but a homosexual liason also brings in issues of adulty (if one of the two is married), "forniciation" (i.e. a sexual act between two people who aren't married.), sodomy, etc... which are also mentioned in various parts of the bible.

Again, these are all acts. I can't think of any biblical references that condemn a non-sexual relationship. There are many christian faiths that don't rely a literal interpretation of the bible and some that place little relevance on the Old Testemant passages and they tend to be more liberal in their aproach to the subject.
Arella Mae
Reply Wed 13 Aug, 2008 12:17 pm
According to the Bible, homosexuality is an abomination to God. It is a pervsion of God's intent for mankind. If a church accepts homosexuality as ok, according to the Bible, they are not a true Christian church.

I know a woman that had lived a lesbian lifestyle and has abstained from any type of relationship because she knew what the Bible says about being a homosexual and she wants to be obedient to God's will.

But I will tell you this, according to God (as stated in the Bible) it is not love. In the eyes of some humans it may be, but not to God.
Reply Thu 14 Aug, 2008 10:03 am
@Arella Mae,
You are a very intolerant person, Arella Mae. The letter killeth but the spirit setteth free. I will pray that your barren heart is melted by God's love.
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2008 06:23 pm
@Arella Mae,
Yes Ma... Can see you in the front row of the below biblical garbage with your pile of rocks ready to kill.
And this would happen if religion ever got enough power in government.

Quote..... If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them" (Leviticus 20:13)... Unquote.

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Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2008 07:00 pm
@Arella Mae,
Im not a christian , so let me just say that now...

But I completely agree with Arella . -according to the bible- homosexual acts are NOT acceptable and are considered a sin.

If a church goes against its 'book of rules' ( the bible) then how can it be considered a real christian church?
The rules for the christian religion are in the bible. And according to the bible you need to follow those rules. I believe it is MAN ( humans) who adapts the arrogance to say ' I dont have to follow that rule because I am who I am"

Im not defending the religion, or in anyway saying I agree with the religion. I just see A-M 's point and I agree.
If you want to be a christian, you have to follow the rules and do as you are told to.

The majority of the mainstream churches have adapted PC as a god instead of their bibles rules.
To each his own I think..
But I find it odd too that they squeal about being REAL christians, yet they are willing to ignore the rule book when it makes them uncomfortable.

Arella Mae said nothing intolerant in her post. She doesnt insult gay people, she DIDNT insult homosexuals in general. She was just telling what the bible says about homosexuality. And she is right. The bible says it is wrong.

( Disclaimer)
I dont care who sleeps with who. Homosexuality to me is only an issue for those in the relationships. It is not for me to judge them or otherwise look down on them. I dont see a single thing wrong with homosexuality.
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2008 09:35 pm
Good post shewolfnm. I am not a Christian either, but I agree with everything you wrote.
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Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2008 05:39 pm
This is what amazes me with the avid readers of the bubble ( translate bible ) how they can they can dissect what their god supposedly said and then, if it's able to be used against a minority of the population in some blood thirsty way, they keep on and on about it, especially if it's sexually orientated. You never hear- see them write anything about the killing of a city's population of innocent people accept for the woman, who their god say they can keep ... I suppose, for rape and slavery. Yuck! what a book of hate and depravity.
The Pentacle Queen
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2008 12:59 pm

August 19 at 8:37pm
I don't know where you got the idea that "obviously" Christianity "condemns homosexuality", because it doesn't, not all of the Christian church. Don't you read the papers? If you live in South-east London, you can't be too far from Lambeth.

If homophobia wasn't an ingrained fashion in the christian religion then the Lambeth thing wouldn't be a big deal in the first place. The resistance to gay Vicars is in my opinion justified, because if the bible is the timeless and everlasting message of god, then we cant piss around with it. Contrex- Yes I do read the papers, and I wish to be enlightened (thus starting the thread.)
More liberal sections of the church support homosexuality within their religion- and I am assuming you agree (with both homosexual acts of sex AND love) Is this the case? How does the Bible relate to this issue?

Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2008 02:11 pm
@The Pentacle Queen,
The Old Testament is a bunch of crazy stuff written thousands of years ago by a bunch of Middle east Jews who were barely out of the Bronze Age. The New Testament is a bunch of equally crazy stuff. I couldn't care less what it says about homosexuality, pork eating, wearing funny hats, lying with my brother's wife, lying with my brother's goat, or anything else.

Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2008 10:58 pm
Couldn't agree with you more contrex
Diest TKO
Reply Sun 4 Jan, 2009 10:04 am
Good points shewolfnm.

Hey Christians! Don't half ass this Christian thing, you need to condemn gays big time! Oh lets see... what else... such a big list of other things you'd need to do as well...

Oh!.. Here's an easy one, take your insolent child to the gate of your town and stone the little ****** to death because he talked back when you told him to wear gloves cause it was cold outside. That should be a pretty easy one right?

Take this **** seriously if you plan on using it as your justification on condemning gays.

Bi-Polar Bear
Reply Sun 4 Jan, 2009 11:15 am
@Diest TKO,
it's not really necessary to go that far TKO...just the threat of it kept my cubs in line...
Reply Sun 4 Jan, 2009 11:59 am
@Bi-Polar Bear,

That is a bit too far.
I can just stone her in the back yard. No need to drag her to the edge of Austin.

Diest TKO
Reply Sun 4 Jan, 2009 12:05 pm
but if they don't how can they call themselves Christians? How can Churches that don't advocate this behavior call themselves Christian Churches? They "know" how God feels and what he command of them to do in this situation. How can they reconcile?

No need to belabor the point: If Christian churches can pick and choose what verses to obey, then they can choose to disregard condemning gays without thinking twice. Those churches that choose to not condemn are no less Christian.

(this was really in response to AM's post about what church's can call themselves Christian)

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Reply Mon 5 Jan, 2009 04:56 am
As a matter of note, I don't recall Jesus, the man after whom the Christian religion was founded, ever condemning gays...his disciples (well, Paul anyway, and in Romans if I remember right) did.

Jesus' sayings were much more tolerant.

As for the disciples view of things, I've wondered if any Christian has ever asked a gay person if they've ever been attracted to the opposite sex. I have asked (well, asked lesbians anyway), and a number have said they've never been attracted to the opposite sex. This means its a natural attraction (to the same sex), and everything is, according to the bible, a creation of god.

Of course, even if they were attracted to either sex, this would still be a natural thing (it's impossible to be attracted to something that you aren't attracted to), and if one believes in God the creator of all things, then the ability to be attracted to the same sex was created by God.

On the topic of creations of God, carnivorous animals were either created that way, or mutated to become so (which would then provide support evolution).

Actually, there's a whole heap of fascinating conundrums when one considers creation, earth, and heaven (like 'there is no marriage in heaven'....where does that leave us humans if we keep our sexual organs in heaven?)
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Reply Mon 5 Jan, 2009 04:28 pm
Like everything else contradictory in the bible, its open to massive individual interpretation, each one backed by an unbreakable "faith" that each interpretation is the "correct" one.

Arella Mae, you can tell your abstinant lesbian friend if she wants to become blessed, she only needs to kill a few babylonian children by smashing their heads against rocks.

(ESV) Ps. 137, vs. 9: Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones
and dashes them against the rock!

Of course, there are some other versions that say it won't "bless" you, just make you very happy.

(KJ) Ps. 137, vs 9: Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones

And yet others that separate the sentence into two separate verses.

(NIV) Ps. 137, vs. 8-9: ...happy is he who repays you
for what you have done to us-

9 he who seizes your infants
and dashes them against the rocks

In true Christian tradition, tell her to pick the one she thinks is most applicable and do it. I would urge her to use the ESV version since that will actually BLESS her instead of just make her happy.

Hope this helps.
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Josie Foles
Reply Mon 5 Jan, 2009 04:42 pm
I would like to point out that some Christians put little emphasis on the Old Testament, where 100% of the condemnation of homosexuality is. Most of my family is very christian, and they are very tolerant of homosexuals (of course, they are smart, open-minded people

And I would say to any Christian who claims disregarding the Old Testament is Unchristian: I hope you eat only Kosher food.

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