dyslexia
 
  2  
Reply Wed 28 Oct, 2009 10:07 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I had assumed you had put me on ignore and was taken aback to see you respond to my post. Interesting.
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Oct, 2009 10:43 am
@BorisKitten,
BorisKitten wrote:
Anyway, statements that repressed memories do not exist are untrue... I know from experience.

There has never been a verifiable case where someone has "repressed" (i.e. sublimated into and retained in the subconscious) a traumatic childhood memory. That's not how memory works.
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Reply Wed 28 Oct, 2009 10:44 am
@dyslexia,
dyslexia wrote:

I had assumed you had put me on ignore and was taken aback to see you respond to my post. Interesting.

He took you off ignore but you repressed the memory of that.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Oct, 2009 10:55 am
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

BorisKitten wrote:
Anyway, statements that repressed memories do not exist are untrue... I know from experience.

There has never been a verifiable case where someone has "repressed" (i.e. sublimated into and retained in the subconscious) a traumatic childhood memory. That's not how memory works.


Interesting. However, the term "subconscious" actually refers to the "unconscious" mind. Would it make a difference if "unconscious" is substituted?
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Oct, 2009 10:59 am
@wandeljw,
"Subconscious" and "unconscious" are Freudian constructs, not real things. As you know from reading Popper, Freudianism is a pseudo-science, as it is not susceptible to being disproved. As such, it makes no difference whether a memory is repressed into the unconscious or the subconscious. You might as well say that a memory is repressed into the magic green unicorn inside your brain.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Oct, 2009 11:17 am
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

"Subconscious" and "unconscious" are Freudian constructs, not real things. As you know from reading Popper, Freudianism is a pseudo-science, as it is not susceptible to being disproved. As such, it makes no difference whether a memory is repressed into the unconscious or the subconscious. You might as well say that a memory is repressed into the magic green unicorn inside your brain.


That is all true. For me, however, the terminology is a useful way to describe abstract processes.

For example, right now I am "sublimating" my desire to throttle Rush Limbaugh.
BorisKitten
 
  3  
Reply Wed 28 Oct, 2009 02:38 pm
@joefromchicago,
Quote:
BorisKitten wrote:
Anyway, statements that repressed memories do not exist are untrue... I know from experience.
----------------------------------------------------
There has never been a verifiable case where someone has "repressed" (i.e. sublimated into and retained in the subconscious) a traumatic childhood memory. That's not how memory works.

Yeah, well, try it for yourself, see how you like it.

Honestly, Joe, there IS such a thing. I'm what they call "living proof."

I've always thought "subconscious" and "unconscious" were confused and misused, by both therapists and Regular Folk.

"Unconscious" used to mean "passed out," that is, not responsive to external stimulation. These days it refers to what I call "subconscious," that is, things of which we are not aware.
BorisKitten
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Oct, 2009 02:41 pm
@BorisKitten,
Despite the names, virtually all 4 of my siblings have experienced the pesky results of Repressed Memories. 3 of those siblings are now dead, one is alive but hasn't contacted me (and my mother) for over 15 years.

Oh sure, not a thing happened when we were children.

You think we "made it up," is that right?
0 Replies
 
BorisKitten
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Oct, 2009 02:44 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
For example, right now I am "sublimating" my desire to throttle Rush Limbaugh.

Ya know, I got WAY happier when I stopped watching TV, some 15 years ago.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Oct, 2009 02:51 pm
@BorisKitten,
Seriously, though, like you pointed out, these things are real. I also feel that "unconscious" is the correct term if used properly. How can one demonstrate the reality of the unconscious mind? ----- Most of us dream when we are asleep.
BorisKitten
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Oct, 2009 03:07 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
Seriously, though, like you pointed out, these things are real.

You're right about that... these "repressed memories" ARE real, if they give you trouble or cause you to suffer.

I think my "reading" of Unconscious VS Subconscious comes from early-on in my learning, when "Unconscious" meant passed-out and "Subconscious" meant repressed memories... or other unknown stuff our minds were doing to effect our day-to-day behavior.

To me, definitions of terms don't really matter all that much. What matters is whether you can possibly stand to get up in the morning.
0 Replies
 
BorisKitten
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Oct, 2009 03:15 pm
Quote:
The level of emotional significance of a memory correlates directly with the memory's veracity. Studies of subjective reports of memory show that memories of highly significant events are unusually accurate and stable over time.[12] The imprints of traumatic experiences appear to be qualitatively different from those of nontraumatic events. Traumatic memories may be coded differently than ordinary event memories, possibly because of alterations in attentional focusing or the fact that extreme emotional arousal interferes with the memory functions of the hippocampus.[12]

Although research on repressed memory is limited, a few studies have suggested that memories of trauma that are forgotten and later recalled have a similar accuracy rate as trauma memories that had not been forgotten.[2]

From Wikipedia.

Oh YES, I know that Wikipedia is not necessarily the best source of information. I judge for myself... does this seem reasonable? Are the references verifiable?
You can easily check for yourself.
0 Replies
 
BorisKitten
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Oct, 2009 03:47 pm
It seems clear that virtually everyone has forgotten the influence of Elizabeth Loftus on Repressed Memories and their recall.

Elizabeth herself was accused, by her own daughter, of childhood abuse.

Elizabeth's subsequent denial of this abuse launched her career. I read, over 10 years ago on the Internet, a statement by Elizabeth's daughter, featuring a long apology to others who were abused as children.

I'm not surprised to find I can no longer locate this speech/statement on the Internet.

For those who are interested, here are a few links about this "Founder of the Lie of Repressed Memories":

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/26/AR2006102601612.html

Quote:
Elizabeth Loftus is one of the psychologists supporting the False Memory Syndrome Foundation.

In fact, she's one the FMSF's key specialists and a Mockingbird celebrity shrink.

For some reason, Loftus doesn't remember her childhood before age eight. I think she found her mother dead in the family pool. Odd case herself and she brings it to prominent cases of child abuse, too. She's had counter-suits against her for meddling in cases.

Here is Loftus' own memory trauma history from the article below-
"Elizabeth Loftus' mother drowned when Elizabeth was 14. Elizabeth kept a diary before that terrible day and after. The diary reveals a child who is desperately hurt but believes that one day she will get past missing her mother. She has not.

It is, she believes, what fuels her own workaholism and her desire, sometimes, to see shattered families made whole. To this day, she cannot mention her mother without tears. Loftus, the memory whiz, says she is hard-pressed to remember much about the woman she still misses.

A few years ago, Loftus was told that she was the one who had found her dead mother in the pool.

For 35 years, Loftus believed it was her Aunt Pearl who first saw her mother's lifeless body in the water. For several days, Loftus searched her own memory for proof to support the new information. It came. She reinterpreted everything that happened that day in a new way, building up the memory. The scene was re-created in her mind with her in it.

Then her uncle called to say he was mistaken. She never saw her mother dead."

Above from the comments to this link:
http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewtopic.php?t=9050&sid=70137fca5b21fb5de48007cba5f8781b

Quote:
In this particular case, it appears Loftus may have violated at least three ethical codes, research subject confidentiality, informed consent and dual relationships.

Link here:
http://ritualabuse.us/research/memory-fms/the-alleged-ethical-violations-of-elizabeth-loftus-in-the-case-of-jane-doe/
0 Replies
 
BorisKitten
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Oct, 2009 03:54 pm
So, why do I seem to be the only person here who:

A) Knows something of the history of Elizabeth Loftus, the founder of the False Memory Syndrome Foundation (FMSF)?

B) Knows about Ms. Loftus's own daughter, the daughter's accusations, and her daughter's subsequent Internet apologies for her mother's adverse actions?

C) Suspects that Ms. Loftus was able to influence an entire generation of psychotherapists regarding "False Memories?"

You can all read, right?

(Why YES, I am feeling a bit crabby about all of this!) Wouldn't YOU, given that your Recovered Memories of childhood emotional/physical/sexual abuse were Denied as Lies, just like they were denied as lies by your own parents some 40 years previous?

Doh, I think so!

Wake up folks, and read for yourselves.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Oct, 2009 04:12 pm
@dyslexia,
dyslexia wrote:

I had assumed you had put me on ignore
and was taken aback to see you respond to my post. Interesting.
So far as I remember, I have never put u on Ignore
because u did not offend to the necessary degree for that to happen.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Oct, 2009 04:49 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

dyslexia wrote:

I had assumed you had put me on ignore
and was taken aback to see you respond to my post. Interesting.
So far as I remember, I have never put u on Ignore
because u did not offend to the necessary degree for that to happen.
well david you certainly can't fault me for not trying.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Oct, 2009 05:01 pm
well david you certainly can't fault me for not trying.

Very Happy Smile Laughing Mr. Green Smile Laughing Very Happy
wandeljw
 
  2  
Reply Wed 28 Oct, 2009 07:08 pm
@BorisKitten,
I believe you, BorisKitten. Unfortunately, scepticism about recovered memories became widespread after some high profile court cases were prosecuted based on false recovered memories. I still believe most recovered memories are genuine and necessary to treatment of emotional distress. Although many of Freud's theories have been proven false, there is still a great deal of respect for Freud's insights about the unconscious.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Oct, 2009 08:16 pm
@dyslexia,
dyslexia wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:

dyslexia wrote:

I had assumed you had put me on ignore
and was taken aback to see you respond to my post. Interesting.
So far as I remember, I have never put u on Ignore
because u did not offend to the necessary degree for that to happen.
well david you certainly can't fault me for not trying.
OK; I will not fault u for that.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Oct, 2009 08:17 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

well david you certainly can't fault me for not trying.

Very Happy Smile Laughing Mr. Green Smile Laughing Very Happy
U just were not obscene enuf, Ed.
0 Replies
 
 

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