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How can we be sure that all religions are wrong?

 
 
Reply Thu 28 Mar, 2013 05:32 pm
As the title reads "How can we be sure that all religions are wrong?" I have my ideas and I would like to hear some of yours before I share mine.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 73 • Views: 94,943 • Replies: 2,056

 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Mar, 2013 05:59 pm
@reasoning logic,
I cannot think of any way at all...except to inappropriately define all religions as being wrong.

Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Mar, 2013 06:07 pm
@Frank Apisa,
By the way, RL...I certainly am interested in your ideas on this and will give them serious consideration.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Mar, 2013 06:36 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
By the way, RL...I certainly am interested in your ideas on this and will give them serious consideration.


OK Frank I can see where you are going and I think you are correct but I still think that we should consider this. Laughing

If we were to consider that a God really did have an interest in us all knowing that he existed, would it be unreasonable to think that he would be unable to put his words in all of our brains so that we all would agree that it was from him?

What I am implying is if you were a God and were able to make DNA and able to to make life as it is which is very complex, "couldn't you also be able to do something less complex such as add a hard drive so to speak into all of us so that we could all acknowledge it as being the absolute word of God without any misinterpretation so that we could all agree and he could also give us the free will to ignore it if we wanted to? Why would he have made us "to where we had to learn his word of truth when he could have implanted it in our brains and yet still gave us the freewill to use it?
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Mar, 2013 04:55 am
@reasoning logic,
How can anyone honesty say that they are sure that they all are wrong? Any theist does not embrace them all...So they do not believe they know the answers to them all, and only the one they embrace...Agnostics claim they are unsure...and atheists claim that they do not believe in any Gods or theism's...
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Mar, 2013 05:25 am
@reasoning logic,



Quote:
OK Frank I can see where you are going and I think you are correct but I still think that we should consider this.

If we were to consider that a God really did have an interest in us all knowing that he existed, would it be unreasonable to think that he would be unable to put his words in all of our brains so that we all would agree that it was from him?


Okay, RL. But that contains an unnecessary qualifier...that there is a God that really has an interest in us all knowing that it exists.

What if there is a GOD...and the GOD had absolutely no interest whatever in whether we knew it existed or in anything else about us?

There are "religions" that posit exactly that. Deism is a form of such a religion…one that simply avoids or dismisses the notion of revelation of any sort other than conjecture. Those kinds of religions are not necessarily "wrong."

Quote:

What I am implying is if you were a God and were able to make DNA and able to to make life as it is which is very complex, "couldn't you also be able to do something less complex such as add a hard drive so to speak into all of us so that we could all acknowledge it as being the absolute word of God without any misinterpretation so that we could all agree and he could also give us the free will to ignore it if we wanted to? Why would he have made us "to where we had to learn his word of truth when he could have implanted it in our brains and yet still gave us the freewill to use it?


There are all sorts of GODS that could be possible…and certainly a GOD that couldn’t care less about revelation is one. Another could be one that could not care less about what animals do (sets of morality)…and would, by default, give all animals including humans the “free will” to do whatever they thought appropriate.

If there were a god interested in revelation of self…I cannot conceive of the god doing what the gods that have been worshipped on Earth to date have done to reveal itself.

Anselm suggested that “God” is that which nothing greater than can be imagined. Anyone who cannot image a god better able to reveal its existence and its intentions than (for example) the god of Abraham…simply has no imagination.

RL, I suggest that perhaps the question of your title may be what is troubling me...not your arguments. I agree with the general thesis of your arguments...but the question as posed misses the mark in my opinion.
gungasnake
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 29 Mar, 2013 05:31 am
@reasoning logic,
Some are more wrong than others. I-slam and the theory of evolution are the two worst cases.
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reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Mar, 2013 05:36 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
RL, I suggest that perhaps the question of your title may be what is troubling me...not your arguments. I agree with the general thesis of your arguments...but the question as posed misses the mark in my opinion.


I can agree with what you are saying and maybe I should have titled it something like what you quoted below.

Quote:
If there were a god interested in revelation of self…I cannot conceive of the god doing what the gods that have been worshipped on Earth to date have done to reveal itself.


reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Mar, 2013 08:23 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
How can anyone honesty say that they are sure that they all are wrong?


I love you as a brother Spades so please do not take what I share as being mean spirited.

How can anyone honesty say that they are sure that all elves and Easter bunnies are wrong?
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Fri 29 Mar, 2013 08:28 pm
@reasoning logic,
No one could, could they? I was interested in your response because I think it answers your question perfect...

Any other way to try to explain how a belief in any God(s) are all wrong would require another belief would it not?

No offense taken by your response mate...No offense to you personally as well...but you are the one who asked the question...

If by any religion you mean beliefs in God(s)...then I do not think there is anyway to know that they are all wrong unless you believe that this is true oneself...but then it contradicts the "beliefs" and "proof"...

Can you think of another way? You would have to validate that they are bogus, but it would require you to demonstrate how they all exist just to provide how they are all are not...Or how one does not believe it is true...

That is why I have always said that I understand why atheists believe Gods are bullshit or how they would explain their positions...I do not agree, but my point is that it is because it seems they must believe it is true...and can not think that this is true because they reject it is how they actually feel or believe...
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Mar, 2013 08:46 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
How can anyone honesty say that they are sure that all elves and Easter bunnies are wrong?


Quote:
No one could, could they? I was interested in your response because I think it answers your question perfect...


Are you going to have a festival weekend in favor of elves and Easter bunnies this week end?
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Fri 29 Mar, 2013 08:51 pm
@reasoning logic,
No...are you going to try to explain to me and others how you think you are an atheist because you reject Elves or Easter bunnies? And attempt to validate their potential existence just to then reject you believe it is so...? Or ask other believers of either to validate their beliefs, rather than explain why you chose to believe they are not?

How is everything not a belief?
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Mar, 2013 08:57 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
No...are you going to try to explain to me and others how you think you are an atheist because you reject Elves or Easter bunnies?


Are you suggesting that being you are an A-Elfist and an A-Easter bunniest that people other than yourself should explain how you reject them?
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Fri 29 Mar, 2013 09:08 pm
@reasoning logic,
I think you may have made your reply a bit off...It does not seem to be saying what I think you are...but it is close...but it is confusing me to where I am not sure as to what I think you may mean and how it may have been meant to be said...

I am suggesting that if I am an A- in those 2 cases or any such one...and I come across someone who believes something is true that I do not believe...I will explain to them why I do not believe that that is true...because that is what I believe...not reject...

In any event...a believer of an Easter bunny explaining how an A-bunniest has beliefs...is the same exact thing as an A-bunniest saying that they do not have beliefs about them, and asking a bunny theist to validate their theist beliefs for them, so they can believe or reject...is it not? What is the difference?
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Mar, 2013 09:09 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
ask other believers of either to validate their beliefs, rather than explain why you chose to believe they are not?

How is everything not a belief?


I apologies for not having the answers to the questions that you would like to hear but I was curious what you had to say about this.

If I were to ask you how you would define reality, how would you do it?

Here is a definition of it and I wonder what you think about it.

Quote:
Reality is the substance that refuses to go away even when you refuse to believe it.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Fri 29 Mar, 2013 09:16 pm
@reasoning logic,
I would say that that is a correct definition...however, it is not complete...I would also add this...

Reality, is also the substance that we know that we do believe...and what we do believe...even if we do not want to believe that we do...Or know why we believe what we do...
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Mar, 2013 09:21 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
Reality is also the substance that we know that we do believe...and what we do believe...even if we do not want to believe that we do...Or know why we believe it...


It may be a reality that we believe it but does it truly make it reality just because we believe it? Maybe a subjective reality but is it objective or subjective to everyone? Is the sun a subjective reality or is it subjectively experienced?

Goodnight Spades.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Fri 29 Mar, 2013 09:34 pm
@reasoning logic,
I can ask you the same exact questions as to how everything that we can strictly, physically see = reality...

Everyone believes things...and everyone does not know why they do believe certain things that they do...this may not be able to be seen empirically, but that does not mean that it is not empirically true...

Otherwise there are no good reasons for a Quantum Physicists to believe that the string theory is correct just because the math says it is so...because no one has seen this stringed-universe empirically...

Another way to prove it...I do not know what you look like...and lets just say you had never seen my photo....you and I are going to have a belief of what each other looks like, and that is reality to us...it does not make a difference if it is true or not, or if it is validated...but we already have beliefs about this...Which means that whether or not it is the truth...It is apart of everyone's reality, and there must be a reason why it happens and why we believe what we do without knowing the answers...and validating it, is just a subjective way of validating this reality for some, just as much as trying to understand why we believe the ways we do are for others...

Have a great night Logic...Wink Very Happy
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XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  0  
Reply Fri 29 Mar, 2013 10:01 pm
@reasoning logic,
The way that I see it mate, is almost like the exact opposite of what an agnostic claims...It will be somewhere between what we believe and why we do...and what we know and why we do...And everything in reverse is who we are...

I claim to believe things and God, but is it because I believe what someone else said about God? Or because I believe it myself?

You claim to validate things...but are there things that one asks to have validated that they know one can not? And they already believe it? etc...Will determine who we are...because our afterlife, is based upon who we are...and God knows all...

What our true intentions are, based upon every action...determines what the consequences will be...in reaction...
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Mar, 2013 10:38 pm
Certainly, 6000 years of priestly excess should lead us to conclude that all religions are wrong.

But it would be equally wrong to lay the blame on Jehovah.

The world is currently under the control of his adversary. Were this not true, he could not have tempted Jesus with their dominion.
 

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