The Jews.

Craven de Kere wrote:

nimh wrote:
Has Judaism "taught anti-Christianity for a thousand years"?

No, for nearly 2 thousand.

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Was it "a great purveyor of anti-Christianity"?

Yes

Explain. Where and how has anti-Christianity grown and blossomed thanks to how these Judaist teachings of two thousand years that you mention have purveyed it?

Craven de Kere wrote:

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Has that caused anti-Christianity to "still persist"?

Yes

Where, and how?

Craven de Kere wrote:

Now mind you, they haven't managed anything like a Holocaust, but the answers to your questions are still "yes".

What exactly did they manage, if not "anything like a Holocaust"? Which Christians are suffering under Judaist-purveyed anti-Christianity?

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I figured you'd be asking for citations. I don't plan to give them (gotta do some work and don't want to sidetrack this thread) so it's a "take it or leave it" post. Feel free to leave it.

You seem to want me to illustrate oppression. I never claimed there was oppression. I never claimed there was "suffering" (though there was, so I do claim it now). I never mentioned "blossoming". You asked simple questions with simple answers and did not qualify them.

Anywho, like I said, I don't plan to cite it. I haven't the time. Feel free to disregard my answers or research them. I don;t have time for a "nimh job". ;-)

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This one is rather old, but here's a link on "anti-Christian" crimes by Jews. http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-genocide-antichristian-crimes.html

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Ahem, c.i., I would say that jewwatch.com is not exactly an unbiased source there...

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I refuse to play tit-for-tat holocaust haggling with you, nimh.

I wasn't comparing acts of atrocities or oppression, nimh. I was comparing the two religions coming to grips with their hatreds. What are you implying with your line of questioning, that only a certain amount of suffering caused by one's hatred is grounds for introspection and confrontation, and anything less than that absolves the individual? If so, I don't buy into your argument. Hatred is hatred. Talmudic Jewish hatred--and that is absolutely not to say that all Jews are hateful--brought about anti-Semitism upon Jews. The hateful Gentiles'--those Gentiles with hatred for the Jews, the anti-Semites--reaction, to persecute all Jews, was and is wrong, but those are the repercussions of hatred. Hatred begets hatred, and it devolves into a one-upmanship. In Europe the anti-Semites won that repugnant game. Does this fact absolve Talmudic Judaism's hatred of the goyim? Absolutely not.

By the way, who's winning that game in Palestine?

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nimh wrote:

His point was - as that of many of us here would be - about the role the Church has played in actively promoting anti-semitic myths and doctrines, throughout a thousand-year history, and even engaging and conspiring in the actual mass persecution of the Jewish population.

as well as preserving it which unfortunately cannot be said of the canaanites at the hands of the jews.

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InfraBlue wrote:

Talmudic Jewish hatred--and that is absolutely not to say that all Jews are hateful--brought about anti-Semitism upon Jews.

I suppose that Blacks in America brought about lynchings, segregation and institutionalized racism upon themselves because they hated the White man for forcibly turning them into slaves.

You say that the mass-murder of Jews was and is indeed wrong Rolling Eyes

but your logic in the above quote implies that they deserved it on some level. Interesting thinking there.

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Infrablue, do you actually know anything about the history of the Talmud? I think you'll find that like any religious text, it's history is long and varied. Educate yourself here a bit:

http://www.come-and-hear.com/talmud/rodkinson_1.html

Also note that the book was written by a Reverend who clearly did not feel persecuted by this supposed "Talmudic Jewish hatred" and "anti-goyism" you speak of. Being started in approx. 500 BC, and being written in Hebrew, I expect that the Yiddish word goy doesn't even appear in the text, epecially as it didn't even exist as a language back then.

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cavfancier wrote:

Ahem, c.i., I would say that jewwatch.com is not exactly an unbiased source there...

You win the understatement of the year award. :wink:

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Heh heh, well, with a population of 14 million, as opposed to the 2 billion Christians out there, according to jewwatch.com we are apparently very busy running the media, international banking, and generally threatening to destroy the heathens who outnumber us, oh just a tad. We must be an intimidating people indeed...

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you can kvetch!

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Can't we all?

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Just in case anyone wants to know why the Pope decided to apologize to the Jews, here is some perspective:

http://www.shc.edu/theolibrary/resources/timeline.htm

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Only damn thing I can think of that I admire this pope for doing! It was a biggie, too.

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And long overdue. IMO the Catholic church should apologize for it all a few more times.

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Has anyone here been hurt, or know someone who has been hurt by anti-goyism?

Is there anyone who believes anti-goyism compares to anti-Semitism in frequency and severity of attacks?

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By the way, who's winning that game in Palestine?

Nobody's winning in Palestine.

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Sofia wrote:

Has anyone here been hurt, or know someone who has been hurt by anti-goyism?

Sure, it's happened thousands of times.

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Is there anyone who believes anti-goyism compares to anti-Semitism in frequency and severity of attacks?

I don't. But then again it's a statistical improbability that the acts of the minority would outnumber the acts of the majority.

I'm not sure what point those who raise anti-goyism in this thread are trying to make but one thing that's important to say is that it is as dangerous as any racial prejudice. It doesn't have to culminate into a historic atrocity to be a real and present danger.

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Nobody's winning in Palestine.

I think Israel is 'winning'. In terms of body count the Pals lose, in terms of land gained Pals lose, in terms of statehood Pals lose...

They need a new playbook. Murdering Israelis isn't working.

But here I go discussing the ME again... somebody spank me.

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Would you expand on the anti-goyism attacks--Who was hurt? How? When? Do you know these people personally, or do you have a link to the story?

(Please explain if anti-goyism is the evil, godless self-defense of a Jew, who is flailing at someone who is trying to kill him. Just so we're all on the same page...)

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"Also, the first Jew to begin codifying the Talmud, Moses Maimonides(1135-1204)"

This is just not factual. Maimonides was just one of a long series of scholars and teachers who contributed to the codification of the Talmud since the first Babylonian tract was written, over 1000 years before Maimonides was born.

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Sofia wrote:

Would you expand on the anti-goyism attacks--Who was hurt? How? When? Do you know these people personally, or do you have a link to the story?

Before I even consider researching this would you clearify whether you think a Jew has ever hurt someone for racial reasons?

Because like I said, I don't think anti-goyism reaches the levels of anti-semetism. So equating the two is not something I had ever implied.

But are you disputing that it even exists? Are you disputing that, say, Israeli extremists have bombed Palestinian civilians simply because they are Palestinians?

I'm not talking IDF either. You might say that the acts perpetrated by Israeli terrorists are not racially motivated and that they are motivated by Palestinian terrorism. But then every Palestinian terrorist gets to pretend he's not an anti-semite either.

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