The Jews.

Ceili
Does it really matter? Whoever did it has been dead for 2000 years.

Hey Cav

Thanks for that link-----whew-----is it any wonder that so many people are down on religion----of any kind.

Tell me about it perception.

I read something recently, inspired by the controversy over Mel Gibson's upcoming film on Jesus' final days, regarding the whole issue of who is to blame for Jesus' death. What the writer had to say (and I forget who it was) made a lot of sense to me.

To paraphrase: Jesus' identity as messiah is predicated on his being crucified. Therefore, it's something that was meant to happen. What sense did it ever make to blame Jews (or Romans) for making it happen?

My guess is that the whole Christ-killer concept has always been a smoke screen for other reasons to attack Jews.

It doesn't matter to me, I just think it ironic.

To accept the 'Christ-killer' idea, one must first accept that Christ was a living being, not just a myth, and I think that while there may have been a great teacher alive at that time, I believe Christ is more myth than man.

I should remind all that the crucifixion of Jesus was not unique. It was a common method of execution in those days. Further capital punishment was not frowned upon 2000 years ago.

Just a bit of humor on that AU----can you imagine how the ACLU would fare with a Roman Emperor?

Good one, perception! Of course, we live in more enlightened times. The state executes evil-doers in more civilized ways...

ok i don't want to sound anti-semitic or anything (i have many jewish friends) but why is it that any critisism of anything jewish or israeli is considered anti-semitic?
not to belittle the plight of the jews over the millennia but it seems as though often times that has been used as justification for any immorality perpetuated by jews.
my mother a devout christian once said to me, "the holocaust washes away the sins of the jews." meaning that jews can justify any action by just pointing to the holocaust.

Which Jews do you think that applies to? I've never heard any Jew make such an outrageous claim.

I don't want to sound racist (I have lots of black friends) but....

Some of my best friends are Christians. , but a dissenting opinion is what makes reasoning viable. The music business is a wonderful example of cultural plurality with a common bond.

"Vanity, vanity...all is vanity...."
Song of Solomon

ye110man



I would ask your mother what than washes away the sins of the Christians against almost anyone and in particular those perpetrated against the Jews. Maybe she has an answer for that.
Your mothers statement and yours regarding Jewish friends fit very well together unfortunately.The sad part is that you do not seem to understand.

ye110wman--

It never fails in a thread about Jews, someone always says what you did---"Why is it when someone criticises Jews, it is always called anti-Semitic."

This hasn't happened here. It seems to be a dodge of the issue. No one has made any slurs here, or claims of anti-Semitism.

Normal criticism of Jewish people is simply criticism. When it evidences or masks an internal bias against Jewish people, it is anti-Semitic. You sort of have to take each comment individually. But, no reason to get into that here and now. More interested in discussing the great issues brought up here.

ye110-- I can't comprehend the thought process involved in your statement about the holocaust justifying immorality perpetrated by Jews...? What immorality? If we are all imperfect, when is the holocaust for Episcopalians and Baptists? Do you see the incredible bias in that type of thinking?

ye110-- If my questions seem a bit shrill, I wanted you to know I'm not in attack mode or anything-- I do hope we can have a conversation that may cause you to see these remarks, and the reality behind them, in a different way.

Jewish leaders warn that there is an Intifada brewing in Western Europe."A person who is identifiably Jewish by his garb, by the literature he is carrying, or by the institution that he has frequented, from a synagogue or Jewish quarter to a Kosher restaurant, is doing so at risk in France."

Dr. Samuels has the facts to back-up that claim. Between September 2000 and April 2002, his group recorded more than 1,000 incidents against Jews around the country.
In the first three months of 2002 alone, 400 attacks took place against Jews and their religious sites. Most were blamed on young French Muslims of North African descent.


Another player said, "I thought they were going to kill the whole team."

A few ended up with minor injuries, but most of the Jewish players ran from the field unhurt. No suspects have yet been arrested.

A heightened level of fear has gripped France's Jewish community of 700,000 souls. The almost daily attacks have crippled the authorities' ability to stop the violence. So some are hiring their own private security, and others are choosing to leave the country.

Rabbi Abenaim Prosper of the Ahavat Chalom Synagogue says he knows Jewish families who are so scared to live in France they have decided to move to Israel. "Yes, of course. I have one family they are going soon from La Courneauv, and in Paris I know many families," he said.

Rabbi Prosper's synagogue is in the town of La Courneauv, a suburb north of Paris. Some in his small congregation are thinking of leaving after anti-Semitism recently hit too close to home. Last year, a surveillance camera captured footage of four young men throwing a gasoline firebomb at the synagogue.

Today, the outside walls of the synagogue bear the scars of many other attacks. Rabbi Prosper says Muslims have repeatedly threatened to take-over the congregation and turn it into a mosque.

Rabbi Prosper said being a Jew in France today is not what it used to be. "I can't say it is dangerous but it is difficult to be a Jew." The difficulties have increased along with a phenomenon some call the partial Islamicization of France.

Michel Gurfinkiel, a French author and journalist, recently wrote: "The Muslim population, already ten times the size of the Jewish community, is growing rapidly, and the thorough transformation it is wreaking in France's ethnic and religious fabric obviously has much to do both with the increase in anti-Semitism and with the official denial of it."
Polls show growing sympathy for the Palestinian cause in France and the rest of Europe.

Dr. Samuels said, "French people, with remaining pangs of conscience, for active or passive collaboration with the Nazi occupant, are finding that it eases them by projecting guilt if you can say that the Israeli is the new Nazi and the Palestinian is the new Jewish victim. Then in that case we weren't so bad after all."

Anti-semitism in France doesn't surprise me at all. Didn't they practically beg the Nazis to occupy them in WWII? I dated a French girl in university and when her mom found out I was Jewish, she freaked out. She said "How can you be dating a Jew, they don't even eat meat!" Lovely story, eh?

Seems stereotyping is contagious, no cav?

Did she look on your forehead for your big Jewish Cyclops Eye?

There must be an efficient way to dispel the stupid myths and lies passed down through the generations about Jewish people. The ADL needs some good advertising.