24
   

Well Damn! Somebody finally SAID IT!!

 
 
eoe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 11:18 am
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

eoe wrote:

maporsche wrote:

I've been a victim of many of the same offenses that I see people blaming on racism, especially as it pertains to youths (such as being harassed by the cops, being turned down for jobs, difficulties in school with resources and teachers, being followed when I enter a store, etc).


This is your quote. Sounds like you're saying that you've experienced all of these things, putting yourself on the same level as a Rodney King, especially with the etc. so, I was just asking. And yes, I have had my ass kicked by a police officer. But that wasn't racism. It was sexual harassment.


I don't even know how to respond to this....I think you've totally lost your mind.


Laughing Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 11:18 am
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:
I don't even know how to respond to this....I think you've totally lost your mind.

I know how to respond. She just called "bullshit" on your claim that you know what it's like to be black just because you were poor.

Black people and poor people do get discriminated against. The cases are far different, though.
maporsche
 
  0  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 11:19 am
@DrewDad,
Which might apply if she had made the statement after I made the comment about white people not being able to understand racism. Unfortunately for your argument, she made it before.

I don't know what you're talking about when you say "white guys being oppresed".
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  0  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 11:20 am
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

She just called "bullshit" on your claim that you know what it's like to be black just because you were poor.


You both are ******* looney then; please please please parse out how my statement can be made into this one.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 11:22 am
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

I would be more inclined to agree with you, if it wasn't for, oh, the overwhelming evidence that some of the opposition to Obama is in fact based in racism. It is quite clear that the issue is worth discussing and addressing, regarding national politics.


Some of the opposition is based on Obama having short hair. Some of the opposition is based on Obama being a man.
Some of the opposition is based on Obama's name starting with an O.
Some of the opposition can be based on anything.


This is a ridiculous argument, because there is no evidence that the opposition to Obama is based on people's inherent dislike of the letter O. On the other hand, there is a great deal of evidence that Race is a potent factor in people's opposition to things; it isn't as if we simply made up some theory about how many White folks feel challenged by a black guy running the joint, out of whole cloth, Maporsche. This issue has a long and dirty history and it's fallacious to ignore this.

Quote:

What you've failed to prove is that any of us should be worried about what some people think. When some is most likely a very small minority.
[/quote]

I don't believe that, among the President's detractors, the minority is small at all.

Quote:

Quote:

I agree that it's uncouth to accuse MaPorsche of racism, but then again, pulling the 'white male anger' routine is pretty uncouth as well.


I disagree VERY MUCH that I "pulled the 'white male anger' routine".
[/quote]

You can disagree all you like, but that's exactly what you did. You parroted it down to the word. It's the same bullshit I've been hearing my entire life from people who want to pretend that racism doesn't exist, or isn't a prime motivator for many people.

And when you try and pull the line about 'poor white folks,' it only compounds the problem. I too grew up in a poor, racially diverse neighborhood, and let me tell ya: the black and hispanic people in my neighborhood got harassed by the white (and black!) cops to a MUCH greater degree than the white folks did. No doubt. The statistics from pretty much every state in the Union back this up, it isn't just my anecdotal experience.

Cycloptichorn
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 11:22 am
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:
Some of the opposition is based on Obama having short hair. Some of the opposition is based on Obama being a man.
Some of the opposition is based on Obama's name starting with an O.
Some of the opposition can be based on anything.

What you've failed to prove is that any of us should be worried about what some people think. When some is most likely a very small minority.

Now I think you've lost your mind.

You're honestly going to say that racial opposition to Obama should be ignored because the number of people who oppose him because of his hairline is negligible?
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 11:25 am
@Cycloptichorn,
What does his race have to do with it? Why are you guys saying it's an angry "white" routine? Tagging negative behavior with a race is ugly too. If he were saying "angry black..." we'd legitimately be on his case about it, so why are you injecting race into your descriptions of him?

Race in America is just so weird, a freakish obsession on all sides (both the racists and the anti-racists).
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 11:25 am
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

maporsche wrote:
Some of the opposition is based on Obama having short hair. Some of the opposition is based on Obama being a man.
Some of the opposition is based on Obama's name starting with an O.
Some of the opposition can be based on anything.

What you've failed to prove is that any of us should be worried about what some people think. When some is most likely a very small minority.

Now I think you've lost your mind.

You're honestly going to say that racial opposition to Obama should be ignored because the number of people who oppose him because of his hairline is negligible?


No, I'm going to say that just because some of the oppostion to Obama that is based on his race......should not extrapoliate to MOST of the opposition being based on his race. And definately not in the Wilson case which we've been talking about.
0 Replies
 
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 11:26 am
@Robert Gentel,
it's the easiest label.

any deeper and one has to look at social reality more closely...
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 11:28 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

And when you try and pull the line about 'poor white folks,' it only compounds the problem. I too grew up in a poor, racially diverse neighborhood, and let me tell ya: the black and hispanic people in my neighborhood got harassed by the white (and black!) cops to a MUCH greater degree than the white folks did. No doubt. The statistics from pretty much every state in the Union back this up, it isn't just my anecdotal experience.


I'd be curious to see those statistics that compare how poor white people are treated by the law compared to poor black people or black people in general.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  2  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 11:32 am
@Robert Gentel,
Robert Gentel wrote:
Race in America is just so weird, a freakish obsession on all sides (both the racists and the anti-racists).


We cannot pretend that racism no longer exists. We can not pretend that the attacks on this particular president have nothing to do racism.
DrewDad
 
  4  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 11:33 am
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:
I disagree VERY MUCH that I "pulled the 'white male anger' routine".

You were totally whining about how you're being stifled in this discussion because you're white.

You're not being stifled because you're white. You're being ridiculed because you're wrong....
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 11:36 am
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

maporsche wrote:
I disagree VERY MUCH that I "pulled the 'white male anger' routine".

You were totally whining about how you're being stifled in this discussion because you're white.

You're not being stifled because you're white. You're being ridiculed because you're wrong....


IF I was 'whining' it was AFTER I was so subtlely accused of being a racist and made into a member of the KKK by eoe.
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 11:39 am
@DrewDad,
No, you don't get the logic, though maporche does a pretty bad job of explaining it.

There are not-so-subtle hints in this thread that specific people are racist. And the argument for it tends to fall back on the fact that there are some who are, indeed, obviously racist.

But that doesn't substantiate the specific claims. Nobody here has said that there are no racists opposing Obama, so the existence of some racists doesn't mean much to the specific allegations of racism.

This is a stereotyping that we wouldn't accept in a racist so we shouldn't accept it here either. When Pamela Rosa takes the existence of "some" black criminals to portray them all that way we rightly reject it. As we should when the only argument for specific individuals being racist is that "some" out there are racist too. If she is wrong to extrapolate that behavior based on race then it is also wrong to do the same with racism.

You guys are doing the same thing that racists do. Stereotyping (what is the point of the "angry white" comments? How is that not the equivalent of the stupid "angry black" brush?) and tarring with a broad brush. The motivation may be much more noble but the logic is just as flawed and this is more of the same kind of stereotyping nonsense.

Of course maporsche is angry, that comment about white sheets was way out of line. It's not because he's white, it's because using that kind of imagery for a guy who voted for Obama is as unreasonable as it is pernicious. That kind of person is not the enemy that the white sheets kind of person is.

It does a great disservice to real civil rights causes by causing moral outrage fatigue and outright resentment at the labels being misapplied.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 11:39 am
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:

Robert Gentel wrote:
Race in America is just so weird, a freakish obsession on all sides (both the racists and the anti-racists).


We cannot pretend that racism no longer exists. We can not pretend that the attacks on this particular president have nothing to do racism.


You're right; they do not have nothing to do with racism.

I just believe that they have LITTLE to do with racism. And MUCH, MUCH, MUCH MORE to do with opposition to Democrats and left leaning policies.

The claims of racism when there is none apparent do nothing but detract from furthering the President's agenda. You can use this thread as an example. I even support the President's healthcare agenda!!!
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  2  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 11:40 am
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

maporsche wrote:
I disagree VERY MUCH that I "pulled the 'white male anger' routine".

You were totally whining about how you're being stifled in this discussion because you're white.

You're not being stifled because you're white. You're being ridiculed because you're wrong....


He's got an opinion, and you've got an opinion, and neither opinion can be definitely proven to be right or wrong in this case. Nobody can see into Joe Wilson's soul. Though I do agree that maporsche sounds like an ignoramus with his statements about the experiences of poor white people compared to black people.
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 11:41 am
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:
We cannot pretend that racism no longer exists. We can not pretend that the attacks on this particular president have nothing to do racism.


I have good news for you then. Nobody here has said racism doesn't exist. Nobody here has said that none of the attacks on Obama have to do with racism.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 11:44 am
@kickycan,
kickycan wrote:

Though I do agree that maporsche sounds like an ignoramus with his statements about the experiences of poor white people compared to black people.


Which I will point out have been completly mis-read/mis-understood.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 11:45 am
@Robert Gentel,
Robert Gentel wrote:

What does his race have to do with it? Why are you guys saying it's an angry "white" routine?


Dude, because he is pulling the 'angry white guy' routine. As I've said, this is a very typical line pulled by white dudes who are angry when other white dudes are accused of racism. I've heard it a million times, mostly out of the mouths of my relatives, some of whom don't like it when Blacks complain about their lot in life, period.

This is a key part of the Republican platform when it comes to race relations: the concept that accusations of racism are worse than racism itself. It's nothing new.

Quote:

Tagging negative behavior with a race is ugly too. If he were saying "angry black..." we'd legitimately be on his case about it, so why are you injecting race into your descriptions of him?


There are screeds which can be accurately described as 'angry Black man;' the Rev. Wright stuff, for example. Hot-tempered Black rhetoric isn't anything new either.

Quote:
Race in America is just so weird, a freakish obsession on all sides (both the racists and the anti-racists).


You have to be aware of something pernicious in order to fight it. Other countries don't make a big deal out of race, in large part b/c they don't make a big deal out of equality. We have chosen to do so. This is the result; issues must be tackled head-on, and yeah, it can get annoying sometimes.

Cycloptichorn
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 11:45 am
@Robert Gentel,
Robert Gentel wrote:

No, you don't get the logic, though maporche does a pretty bad job of explaining it.


I'll concede that point. Obviously I have failed at getting my point across.
0 Replies
 
 

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