Well Damn! Somebody finally SAID IT!!

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

so what are we saying here? That wilson does not believe that obama was legally elected? Is there any evidence that this is what he believes????

As to what Wilson himself believes, I have no idea. But what do you think all the birth certificate talk is about? All this nonsense about Obama being a communist, socialist, fascist, word-of-the day usurper? The underlying theme is most definitely that Obama is not our legitimate president.

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@Eva,

Quote:

In a nutshell: “A lot of these outbursts have to do with delegitimizing him as a president,” said Congressman Jim Clyburn, a senior member of the South Carolina delegation.

And of course, the left NEVER tried to say Bush was not the legitimate President either.
They only spent at least 4 years saying that he was an illegitmate President because he beat Gore in 2000.

I am not saying the one action excuses another.
I am saying that before you blame repubs, dont forget that your side is just as guilty.

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@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

I am not saying the one action excuses another.
I am saying that before you blame repubs, dont forget that your side is just as guilty.

There's no need to assume "sides" in this discussion. You don't need to be on a side to see what's in front of your face. Bush's first election win was contested -- it went to the Supreme Court. It is expected that such an election would raise questions of legitimacy though they were quickly abandoned by any main stream Democrats and the fringe were not given many opportunities to continue it.

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@mysteryman,

Except the two cases aren't really equal.

On the one side, we have people upset at what they perceive as a failure in the political process (elections being decided by the Supreme Court).

On the other, we have people upset about their unsubstantiated fears....

Edit: And what Freeduck said.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

On the other, we have people upset about their unsubstantiated fears....

You mean racists right?

Let's call a spade a spade.

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@maporsche,

I think fear of a black man as president is one unsubstantiated fear that some people have. I do not claim that it is universal among Obama opponents, nor that it is the only possible fear.

1 Reply

@maporsche,

Quote:

You mean racists right?

Let's call a spade a spade.

(kudos for the spade quip).

I mean certainly mean racists.

We all agree that this is racism, right?

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@DrewDad,

Quote:

I think fear of a black man as president is one unsubstantiated fear that some people have. I do not claim that it is universal among Obama opponents, nor that it is the only possible fear.

and those who choose to go bat-**** over racism reinforce the importance of race, as well as betray their lack of faith that their argument that all races should be treated equally will win the hearts and minds of the collective. The fear that the debate will not go the way they want it to go drives them to attempt to force the issue, that is shut down debate and trample on individual rights to decide for ourselves. We enter the wonderful world of brainwashing and language control, which should be condemned when abusers do it as well as when the mis guided do-gooders do it.

Parallel is the claim that they have already won, that those who don't agree with them are such a minority and such defective humans that they have no right to speak.

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@hawkeye10,

I read your post twice and am still uncertain as to who you are talking about. It sounds like you're talking about the tea baggers and Glenn Beck. And what's this bit about?

Quote:

... that those who don't agree with them are such a minority and such defective humans that they have no right to speak.

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@hawkeye10,

Hawkeye, you really aren't making any sense.

You seem to be defending people's right to say all kinds of ugly things about President Obama. You have no problem with them calling him a "lying African". You apparently don't mind the photo shopped pictures of our president in body paint with a horn through his nose. You don't mind the claims that he is un-American, or that he is attacking White People.

You argue that people have the rights to say these things (and I agree with you).

But then you want to censor the word "racist"?

I don't get it. Are you for censorship, or against it.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

and those who choose to go bat-**** over racism

I don't go bat **** over racism, or wife beating, or rape, or gay bashing, or child abuse, or corruption, or unfair labor practices, or price fixing, or drunk drivers, or any number of other attitudes and behaviors.

I do disapprove of them. And I have a right to voice my disapproval.

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@hawkeye10,

Drewdad said:

Quote:

I don't go bat **** over racism, or wife beating, or rape, or gay bashing, or child abuse, or corruption, or unfair labor practices, or price fixing, or drunk drivers, or any number of other attitudes and behaviors.

I go bat **** over those things. I don't think there's any other way to react, if you're someone who knows that a fellow citizen who is dependent on your support - a child or oppressed person of a particular gender or minority population- is being maligned or mistreated.

Quote:

and those who choose to go bat-**** over racism reinforce the importance of race, as well as betray their lack of faith that their argument that all races should be treated equally will win the hearts and minds of the collective. The fear that the debate will not go the way they want it to go drives them to attempt to force the issue, that is shut down debate and trample on individual rights to decide for ourselves. We enter the wonderful world of brainwashing and language control, which should be condemned when abusers do it as well as when the mis guided do-gooders do it

I wouldn't be able to sit back and watch and wait patiently for the collective tide to turn.
This **** is disgusting. I had no idea. That picture of the lady with the sign that said our President is a 'lyin' African' reminds me of the pictures I saw of those well-coifed southern housewives in their shirtwaist cotton dresses standing in line, faces twisted with hate and waiting to spit on the black children trying to go to school during civil rights and integration.
The incongruity of who is saying what is what's so scary.
Same with the mild-mannered guy with the 'white America baby poster'.
These people are our neighbors.

Quote:

We enter the wonderful world of brainwashing and language control, which should be condemned when abusers do it as well as when the mis guided do-gooders do it.

I give Obama credit for being a man and ignoring it - but Jesus- I wouldn't be able to. I don't believe in brainwashing anyone - but I would sure as hell have to tell them what I think.
How disappointing. I really thought we'd come further than this. I guess I'll comfort myself by believing that a lot of Americans have - and pray that the rest of the world doesn't now judge us by the spectacle these people are presenting.
These people should be ashamed.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

...those who choose to go bat-**** over racism reinforce the importance of race, as well as betray their lack of faith that their argument that all races should be treated equally will win the hearts and minds of the collective.

Minorities should not be having to win the minds of "the collective" over to be treated with respect. Who the **** is "the collective" anyways? Every time you use this phrase in your arguments, it's just code for "the majority." You probably use this phrase because you like the idea that your views are somehow upheld by some consensus and that others must vie for your approval. They aren't, and they don't.

If someone is a racist, I'm not really concerned about calling them a racist. I don't think it's unfair for them to be branded negatively for that either.

T
K
O

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@aidan,

Quote:

I really thought we'd come further than this. I guess I'll comfort myself by believing that a lot of Americans have - and pray that the rest of the world doesn't now judge us by the spectacle these people are presenting.
These people should be ashamed.

I suspect that you mostly HAVE come further than this.

Steps forward (and I think that it is now possible in the US to elect a black man is a step forward) are always going to bring about this kind of reaction in some, and I think it would be silly to judge a country by such people.

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Progress has been made. That's for certain. My question is, how many believe in this man, and the office, to shut the rabble-rousers down? And how do we shut them down? The media is totally useless. They're interested in conflict, not progress. Do we take to the streets? Prepare to fight? Whatever means necessary?

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@eoe,

eoe - The way I see we do this is by not being bashful about the topic. I don't think the news media is useless, but they aren't the only thing available. Social media and local dialogs do a lot.

I pride myself on the gauntlet I put my beliefs through (before becoming a partisan hack, lol) and I think that more people should have their ideas challenged.

The Wilson's of the world exist due to complacency.
K
O

1 Reply

@eoe,

Shut them down?

I mean, they're revolting, but the pus is better out than in, however nasty it is, no?

And you have free speech, right?

Unless you are saying that there are so many of them that they can take over the country, or something, don't you just speak and act rationally against them?

We had a similar eruption here with a woman called Pauline Hanson as the figurehead.

It was awful.....

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@Diest TKO,

Diest TKO wrote:

eoe - The way I see we do this is by not being bashful about the topic.

I wholeheartedly agree. Let's just put it out there. But how? The pundits hem and haw and most of them refuse to even utter the word racism because they know, once that door is open, it's gonna be open forever.

1 Reply

@eoe,

It's easy to get causght up in the pundits, but they aren't MORE important than you or I. Don't get so frustrated, and don't look for short cuts. Do what's right and try not to get cynical.

T
K
O

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Quote:

Led by their most senior black lawmakers, House Democrats decided Monday evening to hold the vote. The decision risks escalating the partisan warfare that has erupted since Wilson's outburst.

A vote would reverse the initial sentiment voiced by the president and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) that it was time to "move on" to the debate on health-care. But the White House and Pelosi yielded to senior black Democrats, led by House Majority Whip James E. Clyburn (D-S.C.), and other members of the leadership team, who argued that Wilson's remark was a breach of conduct that must not be tolerated.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/14/AR2009091403567.html?hpid=topnews

Idiots

1 Reply

Well Damn! Somebody finally SAID IT!!

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