Well Damn! Somebody finally SAID IT!!

@hawkeye10,

The insane clowns drive the moderates to the Dems, giving the Dems a majority.

Good for Dems.

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
What a doofus.

He must make his advertisers a heap of money, that he remains on air.

He remains on the air because he is extremely popular. He has recently been considered by some to be the leader of the Republican party. His views are legitimized by the fact that so many people buy into them. Not taking Rush seriously is not one of your options. Trying to label him joke/idiot and ignoring him and his followers would make you the doofus.

This is false. U don 't know what u r talking about.
I know from experience, because I have done it, tho I did not call him an idiot. Maybe u like to do that.
However, I have ignored him for several years. The last time I listened to him, Clinton was president,
but none of his followers to whom I have mentioned this,
have made me a "doofus" whatever the hell that is, nor did thay try.
I agreed with about 65% of what I 've heard him say, when I heard him.

David

1 Reply

@dlowan,

dlowan wrote:

He must make his advertisers a heap of money, that he remains on air.

He is a master at marketing himself.

Apparently when his show went syndicated, they offered it basically for free to all of the smaller markets, which gave him a huge audience. Then he got to sell advertising to all of that huge audience.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

a great many people are in league with Rush, if you want to get anything done in this country you need to find a way to minister to them, to do that you need to understand them.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

a great many people are in league with Rush,
if you want to get anything done in this country you need
to find a way to minister to them, to do that you need to understand them.

Does that imply that I don 't understand them ?

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Minister to them?
I'll work my way around various expletives..

I suppose there is a disconnect - I take people from various walks of life as fallible if one looks, in hilarious ways, including, I'll admit, myself.

I've long learned about what Rush folks think. I need to learn more to minister?
flirt with their ideas?

hawkeye, you are buying the juice.

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@ossobuco,

Oops, that was to Hawkeye, not David.

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@ossobuco,

Quote:

Minister to them?

Maybe you would prefer to call it "walk them back from the cliff"?? You can't persuade people whom you don't understand and whom you feel free to belittle. Listening is called for, maybe they have some valid points, you never know.

My thinking here is guided by my real life experience. I am a zen buddhist, which is strange. I am also a socialist, which is strange. Up till about five years ago I considered myself to be a revolutionary, which at the time was really strange. So here I am, this ultra leftist, and imagine my surprise when time after time the most engaging and fruitful discussions were with the ultra rightists, those to the right of Rush. It turns out that we had a lot that we could agree on, and of the stuff that we did not agree somethings they cared more about, and some I did. If I gave them some of what they really wanted and I thought wrong but did not care much about and they did likewise, we found that the pool of stuff to fight about was much smaller than we could have imagined. We also gained respect for each other, and could enjoy together simple things like eating out and being chaperones on Girl Scout outings.

For damn sure those on the ultra Right do not scare me, and I don't think that they are clowns either.

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@hawkeye10,

the ultra right are my relatives and I know them well. I do take a few of their points. Don't ask, it is not a list.

The circle - melding - of the ultras has panned out for many, not that I could just name people, but I've read about a variety of people switching.

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@hawkeye10,

Imagine if you will the Wayne Dyer of "the power of intention" attending a "tea party". The vibe I got is what I imagine what that would be like.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Never heard of him.

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@Foofie,

Quote:

To answer the above point, I believe the statement, "If homosexuality being inborn is what makes it acceptable," is a red-herring. Homosexuality being supposedly inborn, I believe, is not what makes it acceptable. What I believe makes it acceptable is that homosexuality is not based on a dominant gene, as we know genetics today. In effect, if one's daughter married a homosexual, one can have heterosexual grandchildren, even if conception was with the help of a laboratory. However, if one's (White) daughter married a Black man, one's grandchildren will not be White. And, most parents, Black or White, would like to think that their eventual grandchildren will be carrying on the lineage that they themselves came from.

I can't speak to what makes homosexuality acceptable to some and not to others or what makes some white people able to accept a black grandchild and others not - but I personally don't think either of those tendencies (the ability to accept differences or the inability to accept differences in others) is particularly inborn- unless you consider it an aspect of innate temperament such as the tendency toward flexibility and adaptability as opposed to rigidity - etc.
But this:

Quote:

And, most parents, Black or White, would like to think that their eventual grandchildren will be carrying on the lineage that they themselves came from

gives me pause, because unfortunately, for those who would rather disassociate themselves and their family from grandchildren who don't look just like them, they can't. It is inevitable, and unavoidable that if a child is genetically related to an adult, they will be carrying on the lineage from which that adult came.

God forbid that type of grandparent be faced with an ADOPTED grandchild!
I wonder how they would cope with that?

Quote:

The problem is that the word racism has many dimensions. Plus, we should also remember that when many White soldiers joined to fight the Confederacy, it was not to end slavery. It was to make sure that the western territories would be admitted to the Union as non-slave states, so specifically, the western states could be sans plantations, and therefore White males could find employment. So, racism seems to have a component of the realization, that as big as this country is, we are all competing AGAINST other groups, based on where one is located. A less inflammatory word might be raciocentric. Perhaps, we are. We are also ethnocentric, as I can testify to. So, should we admit that the King might be naked, in the way of allegory, and many are raciocentric, as part of the way we have been socialized in society. Can we put the onus on society's socialization, and stop blaming individuals that had no control of their own socialization?

This is essentially what eoe said when she stated that she understands that most people automatically lean toward those who are like themselves and she only called people to task on it when they sacrificed justice and fairness toward all people to uphold that 'raciocentrism' (she said it much more eloquently). And I agree with that to a certain extent. That does seem to be how most people feel most comfortable- but I do think it's an unfortunate circumstance or truism (whether innate or inborn and even if it's totally natural) because I think it is this that leads to racist thought and behavior.

And even as a white person - I'm confused. On one hand - if a black person says a white person is racist - it's a horrible insult. But if a white person says that most white people they know condone racism and another white person says siding with one's own is natural, and that's just the way it is - that's okay- what the hell is anyone supposed to believe about anyone?

The one thing I do know is that this is true:

Quote:

and many are raciocentric, as part of the way we have been socialized in society.

We have been socialized to be raciocentric in America and I think an awful lot of it IS based on competition:

Quote:

So, racism seems to have a component of the realization, that as big as this country is, we are all competing AGAINST other groups, based on where one is located.

as Foofie has stated.
Otherwise, why would we NOT want people of different races, from other countries coming to do jobs and receive health care? We used to ENCOURAGE it!

1 Reply

@aidan,

Quote:

We have been socialized to be raciocentric in America

the advertised is that race does not matter in America, we are all equal. What is learned is that this is all a crock of ****. Everybody self segregates and then proceeds to call everyone in the other groups racists.

The correct response to the pronouncement " I am white/black/Hispanic/other" is not the demanded "and isn't that wonderful!" but rather "I don't care". Celebrating racial diversity is part of the discredited self empowerment regime, which was a failure in every way. It is well past time to move on in race relations as well, Multiculturalism is a dry hole.

Edit: I lied, white people are not supposed to feel wonderful about our race, we are supposed to feel guilty about the crimes our race has committed in history......**** that.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

Everybody self segregates and then proceeds to call everyone in the other groups racists.

Not everybody. And for some people the segregation hasn't been and isn't voluntary.

Quote:

Celebrating racial diversity is part of the discredited self empowerment regime, which was a failure in every way.

Yeah - people are very insecure about a lot of things. I forgot to say that I think the ability to be flexible and adaptable and accepting of others has a lot to do with one's own self-confidence about one's own situation. And that too, comes back to competition.

Quote:

It is well past time to move on in race relations as well, Multiculturalism is a dry hole.

I can't disagree with that. Multiculturalism/assimilation/ the wonderful multicultural stew we were supposed to have or all the separate components preserved and tossed into a salad never seemed to happen peacefully did it?
What we have at this point looks like the creation of someone who separates his meat from his potatoes from his vegetables and won't let any of them touch each other on his plate.
But I think it was a good idea (multiculturalism). Shame that most seem to think it can't work, and don't feel comfortable enough to try.

Quote:

Edit: I lied, white people are not supposed to feel wonderful about our race, we are supposed to feel guilty about the crimes our race has committed in history......**** that.

I don't feel that I'm supposed to feel anything specifically as a white person. No one has ever made me feel guilty and no one can - unless I've done something to feel guilty about.
I am not an oppressed white person. Laughing

And I have to say that no one of any race has ever tried to make me feel guilty for my own.

1 Reply

@aidan,

Quote:

No one has ever made me feel guilty and no one can - unless I've done something to feel guilty about.

well, that gets back to another point that I keep harping on....that a strong collective requires fully formed and strong individuals, of the type that would refuse to accept guilt for what they did not personally do, nor would they apologize for it because they have no right to apologize for someone else, living or dead (exception for ones children, and sometimes the spouse).

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
We have been socialized to be raciocentric in America

the advertised is that race does not matter in America, we are all equal.

Equality is larger than race. Struggles to create equality go beyond race. Your thoughts on race are moot when talking about the grander topic of equality.

hawkeye10 wrote:

What is learned is that this is all a crock of ****. Everybody self segregates and then proceeds to call everyone in the other groups racists.

For those of us who are multicultural by genetics, we don't get the luxury of choosing. Segregation looks a lot different from my footing.

The problem with self segregation and forming insular groups is that these groups are marginalized to the degree that the only way they can practice their cultural traditions or express their heritage is in private.

The general statement you make here is false regardless because multi-cultural groups do form, socialize, and are composed diversely.

hawkeye10 wrote:

The correct response to the pronouncement " I am white/black/Hispanic/other" is not the demanded "and isn't that wonderful!" but rather "I don't care".

You wouldn't pretend that you get to tell others how to express themselves would you? What aren't they supposed to care about exactly? You are asking people not to care about a part of their identity, no matter how large it is. That's unreasonable. If you don't care, you probably take it for granted. It's easy to not care about identity, when your identity is the status quo. At that point, it's easier for it to be someone else's problem; something for them to get over.

hawkeye10 wrote:

Celebrating racial diversity is part of the discredited self empowerment regime, which was a failure in every way. It is well past time to move on in race relations as well, Multiculturalism is a dry hole.

Again, there are plenty of us without a choice. It will always be an issue in our lives to find balance. Just because you have no interest in contributing, does not mean that multiculturalism is unimportant, or a failure.

hawkeye10 wrote:

Edit: I lied, white people are not supposed to feel wonderful about our race, we are supposed to feel guilty about the crimes our race has committed in history......**** that.

I thought you "didn't care?" Now that a part of your identity as a white person is challenged/scrutinized/smeared, you feel like you aren't getting the respect you deserve. How is your moral outrage at being reduced to your race (instead of your actions) worth more of my attention than any other person's? Unless for some dumb reason you think think this topic is outside of multiculturalism, diversity, or equality, why does it even bother you? I thought you don't care?

It's as if you don't just want sympathy, it's that you want yours first. First, and then you can care about other people's struggles. Maybe. If they've earned it from you by behaving and expressing themselves in a way you approve.

That's called entitlement.
K
O

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
What a doofus.

He must make his advertisers a heap of money, that he remains on air.

He remains on the air because he is extremely popular. He has recently been considered by some to be the leader of the Republican party. His views are legitimized by the fact that so many people buy into them. Not taking Rush seriously is not one of your options. Trying to label him joke/idiot and ignoring him and his followers would make you the doofus.

Idiot.

That is (allowing for intelligent decoding) exactly what I said.

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@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

The insane clowns drive the moderates to the Dems, giving the Dems a majority.

Good for Dems.

I doubt it.

That he is so popular is bad news for humanity, and also the Dems, insofar as they represent what is helpful for humanity.

I doubt decent Republicans, or humans of any reasonable stripe, support him.

Unless they, mistakenly, regard him as just a joke.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

Yes...and that is one of the things that worries me.

Never underestimate the ability of the worst to worsen the worst in any country.

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Limbaugh probes the weakness of his core audience and gives them what they want to hear. Back when his program was new, I listened to him for about his first year. Then I checked in only sporadically. One time, he started in on the American Indian, the way he goes after blacks and Democrats. The resistance put up by his audience caused him to abandon that track in just a few days. If we coddle these people, they will consider us weak and press the advantage. The only way to beat them is at the polls.

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Well Damn! Somebody finally SAID IT!!

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