Who Killed JFK?

I read somewhere that the Kennedys, who as you know were an athletic family, Bobby and Jack originally wanted to be boxers but Rose said no, because they couldn't take a shot to the head.

Because of an unusual set of circumstances, I had the opportunity to speak one on one with Mark Lane -- back in 1964, as I remember it.

He was the first of the major conspiracy theorists -- and wrote the first book outlining possible alternate scenarios to the "Oswald did it alone" story.

Even back then, when the idea of "something hidden" was fresh and interesting, I felt that "the lone gunman acting on his own on a target of opportunity" made the most sense.

I've never been persuaded otherwise.

One of those time gone by
1963-1968


We were in History,
Sister Mousie's class,
although her name was really Sister Julie Phillipina,
she was Sister Mousie because
she was so small
and nearly squeaked when she talked
and we,
well we were so cool
and beautiful
and handsome
and full of the juice of life
until
Father Shaw came on the intercom.

Let me tell you,
I was so sad right from the first word,
so sad,
so hoping that the next words would be about miracles
and how everything was going to be okay
but nothing was never okay after that day
and I'm not all that sure that anything was okay
before that day
but it sure felt like it

dammit.

Mary Carter, who I didn't know,
stopped me on the hill,
going down to the buses and
gave me a hard kiss on the mouth,
then we walked to the stop without speaking.

Years later, in a San Francisco hotel room,
I asked her what that kiss was about.
She said
"Oh, that, I kissed you
because I thought the world was coming to an end
and I didn't want to miss out on kissing those lips."
and I said
Jesus,
and we went to crying,
crying for the lost years,
crying for the lost years,
crying for our nation and our youth
and the sweet young man
who married Jackie
who married us
full of juice
in one of those times gone by.

In the morning,
I took her to the airport
and hitchhiked back to
the airbase.
Twas another morning in America
sweet nineteen sixty-eight.


Joe

Beautiful, Joe. Thank you.

Frank, I, too, met Mark Lane more than once at the time he was writing his book Rush to Judgement. He was a personal friend of a woman who, at the time, was my mother-in-law. I didn't think much of his muck-raking ways nor did I give much credence to his conspiracy theories. Still don't, really. He leaves too many loose ends.

But that was all before the Warren Commission report came out. Now there is a work of fiction worthy of the admiration of any would-be spin-meister. It is a complete mystery to me how anyone can read that nonsense and place any credence whatsoever in it. The commission was set up to explain the CIA/FBI/Secret Service version of the assassination to the general public. It did no investigating of its own whatever.

Have any of you seen "Executive Action"? If you haven't, it's a good rental for you ... it's the best theory I've heard in a long time.

Misti if you tell me what the theory is, it will save me the rental..

The BBC put out an interesting programme just recently that made out a very convincing case that Oswald did indeed act alone. It also demolished the Oliver Stone film, which I had always taken as gospel.

The fact that Oswald was shot by Jack Ruby, who subsequently died of cancer, fanned the flames on the conspiracy theory, and it was a rather odd set of coincidences.

Nothing changes, it seems, because I read a book called The Lincoln Conspiracy, which made a pretty awesome case for Booth's not having acted alone. First time that I ever understood the expression, "Your name is mud."

A conspiracy implies a group of people acting together. If it existed quite a few people would know. You can't stop people trying to settle old scores or trying to make money or just wanting to tell the truth. After 40 years I think we would have had some definitive proof of a conspiracy, had it existed.

William Manchester wrote a long letter to The New York Times with reference to Oliver Stone's venture into fantasy with Garrison, et al. I have the clipping . . . somewhere. He was retained by the Kennedy family within a month of the assassination, to investigate the event, and was writing to the newpaper with the knowledge and consent of the family. He also reviewed the Warren Commission report at the behest of the family. His verdict? Oswald, lone nutcase.

Did anyone see the movie Bubba Ho Tep? It's about two men in a sad run down rest home in east Texas. They present themselves as Jack Kennedy and Elvis. Are they? The rest home is stalked by an Egyptian mummy in cowboy boots who kills the old people to benefit from their life forces. The mummy's story is about as credible as Elvis' and JFK's, especially since JFK is played by Ossie Davis. Davis explains that he was dyed but he is paranoid over Lyndon Johnson. Sleazy but sweet fun.

I've often wondered about Jackie as the hirer of the assassin and I am not alone. When she married Greek shipping magnet, ugly withered old Aristotle Onassis, several people voiced the conjecture that he helped off JFK and she was his reward.

I've thought of writing a short story about who Marilyn would be today had she survived and maybe she did. Maybe she was afraid of aging: after all, some of the other sex symbols of her generation did not fair well. Brigitte Bardot comes to mind. When PBS did its unflinching report on the Kennedys this week (take that right wingers who silenced what was probably a mild CBS movie on Raygun), I thought Marilyn singing Happy Birthday looked ridiculous. Maybe quiet was her price and sex was the price of the Kennedy brothers. A book on her shows her corpse and it doesn't look much like Marilyn. Another 5'6" blonde might have been substituted.

BTW, I think Marilyn, were she still alive, would be a little like .... damn my aging memory .... woman artist who painted skulls and flowers ... a recluse, living on a subsistence farm in the southwest, raising flowers onthe edge of the desert.

DO you perhaps refer to Georgia O'Keefe?

Yes, I do Setanta. If people came to see her, I was told she would come to her gate, look them in the eye and say Front view. turn around and say Back view and go back into her house.

Fred Neil is another famous recluse. Afterwriting Searching for the Dolphins and Everybody's Talking at Me (theme from Midnight Cowboy, sung by Harry Neilson), he disappeared and no one knows if he is dead or alive.

Then there's B. Traven, who I understand nobody every knew who he was.

Are you aware that a bullet traveling directly at you has a "crack" and a "thump" sound - one in front of you and one behind. This location differentiation is made more pronounced the further you are from the location of the weapon.

The actual sound of the weapon is the second sound heard (which, if memory serves, is a "thump").

It takes an expert to reasonably determine where actual shots are coming from. And with multiple shots in fast duration on a moving target (the moving target being the focal point) - and the movement of the head, only pandemonium and confusion can ensue.

In conclusion, I would not expect Mrs. Connelly to be an expert.

That makes sense, BillW.

Also, the School Book Depository sits diagonally across from another red brick structure. That, plus the proximity of the 'grassy knoll', would tend to vreate echoes. I suggest that in a moment of panic. with the adrenalin rush attendant to that panic, few people are going to be calm enough to actually count the number of shots, let alone distinguish between a shot, a bavkfire or an echo.

In the Zapruder film Kennedy is shot first from the rear and then from the front. How could the Warren Commission deny what seems so obvious?

They denied that that is what the Zapruder film shows. The firearms and other forensic 'experts' sent in by the FBI and the CIA glibly explained that the head snapping back doesn't mean the shot came from the front. There was so much double-talk, Piffka, one's head spins to consider it.

The Zapruder film film shows something else as well, more subtle but equally troubling. It shows that 1.7 seconds elapsed between the first and the second shot. If the sole weapon used was the bolt-action Manlicher-Carcano, this is quite impossible. It takes a minimum of 2.3 seconds to eject a spent shell and jack in a new one on that type of bolt-action weapon. If you have an old Springfield or anything similar lying around, try it yourself. The bolt mechanism cannot be worked that fast.

Hmmm, that is another sticking point which I wouldn't have considered.

Merry Andy, did you ever say what you think is the most likely answer? I zoomed through this thread so quickly that now I can't remember. I think Sofia said she thought it was Mafia, with help from the CIA. That's what seems likely to me.

I seem to remember that Jackie O. thought she was in danger too, and that living away from the states was the safest thing.

Will anyone who was around then ever forget that funeral march? The horse with the boots set into the stirrups backwards? The children saluting? Jackie's incredible posture... she looked like she could shatter.

Btw -- I was in grade school and for some sick reason when my teacher told us what had happened, most of the kids in the class cheered. I was stunned and felt more estranged from them than ever before. I remember the teacher and I catching each other's eyes. He just shook his head. It was a truly awful moment.