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Where did our notion of a 'scholar' come from?

 
 
Reply Wed 16 Jun, 2010 08:22 pm
I wonder where the notion of 'scholarship', and the 'scholar' come from. 10,000 years ago, everyone on the planet were hunters, and gathers. People at that time forage for food. Once in a while, you see an enemy group competing with your group for natural resources, so it makes sense to have a warrior classes hanging around. With the emergence of farming, it makes sense to have people defending your land, so soldiers were nice to have around. The notion of a 'scholar' is completely different. Scholars are suppose to be people that get pay to think, and write books, and articles. You don ` t need a scholar to run the government, fight enemy, or farming the land. Scholars can ` t paint, draw, make stuff, or fix stuff. So, where did the notion of 'scholarship' come from? Why is there a class of people that sits around all day, thinking, writing, and doing math( if they are mathematicians). My guess is that our notion of a 'scholar' comes from the church, and the function of 'priest'. In Jewish religion, there is a demand for scholars. The notion of a rabbi is in fact a telmudic scholar. The spread of Christianity demands the use of priest, and the need for people to learn to write and read stuff. This is in fact the case if you look at the original of the oldest universities we have in Europe. They all started up in popping priest out of these institution. This explain why literacy develop, but why is there people 'studying' for a living? I think it has to be Judaism! The whole notion of a class of people just studying comes from the Jews. It is part of Jewish law to study. Later, Christians developed a need to interpret the bible, so, they also need people to do this job.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 10,687 • Replies: 14
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plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jun, 2010 09:20 pm
@TuringEquivalent,
I'm sorry that you think scholars are not needed to "run the government, fight enemy, or farming the land."

What is your first language?
laughoutlood
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 16 Jun, 2010 10:15 pm
@TuringEquivalent,
You've really gone to school on this question haven't you.
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TuringEquivalent
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 17 Jun, 2010 12:16 am
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:

I'm sorry that you think scholars are not needed to "run the government, fight enemy, or farming the land."

What is your first language?



why so sorry? what is your second language?
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jun, 2010 12:04 am
@TuringEquivalent,
It's just that you are obviously not a native speaker of English. It would be helpful to know where you are coming from.
TuringEquivalent
 
  0  
Reply Fri 18 Jun, 2010 12:23 am
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:

It's just that you are obviously not a native speaker of English. It would be helpful to know where you are coming from.


Does it matter? This is a history forum. I want to think about history. If you don` t understand, fine. Don` t comment.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2010 09:37 pm
@TuringEquivalent,
Hey, I was being kind to you. You wrote in an illiterate fashion. I thought perhaps you were foreign born. Now I see that you are a small-minded idiot. Want a second opinion? You're rude.
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AugustineBrother
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 8 Aug, 2016 12:59 pm
@TuringEquivalent,
Turing was in many ways a wretched man, I hope he is not your view of a scholar.
As to your analysis I'm afraid it is just warmed-over Ayn Rand in its assumptions. The book that probably started my conversion was by her and I read it when I was taking a Statistics course years ago. It was called 'For the New Intellectual" and it still holds the record with me of the most unfair book ever written.

I do agree with your favorable view of Judaism however.
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Miller
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 14 Oct, 2016 06:04 am
Quote:
The whole notion of a class of people just studying comes from the Jews. It is part of Jewish law to study.


If there's a specific "class" of people, who have been ordained to "study" for their living ( i.e. Torah scholars), why should others be discriminated against and prohibited from earning a living by studying night and day?

Why not allow everyone to study night and day? By the way, who's paying the bills, while the "scholars" are studying?

Moreover, why is this "studying" you're referring to, both a "gender-specific" activity and apparently a "class-specific" activity?

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Jewels Vern
 
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Reply Sun 2 Jun, 2019 11:42 am
@TuringEquivalent,
You are not a student of history, you are making up your own history. For instance, the "hunter-gather" meme is baloney. People have always lived in villages and planted gardens.

If you want to study something, the first step is to look up what the words mean so you know what you are talking about without making up anything. "Scholar" is simply one who attends a school, or studies a lot. In ancient Greece they had schools to teach slaves to perform useful skills.

The modern notion of a scholar is connected with the academic system. That originated in Akademos, a sacred grove near Athens, dedicated to the goddess of wisdom. Yes, we are talking about a pagan religion. Members claimed ownership of all knowledge, by which they meant stuff they made up by their own human reasoning. Practical knowledge was for servants and tradesmen. The most famous member was Aristotle, whose name is still a synonym for "arrogant jerk". For two thousand years nobody studied science; they studied Aristotle.

"Scholarship" has two meanings. One is the continuing act of studying. The other is money given to support a scholar. When my daughter finished high school she was accepted into a summer program in a foreign country, which basically meant an extended vist with a family living there. She had to pay her own air fare to get there. I gave her the money. The high school principle announced this at the graduation ceremony, but he did not say "Her father paid for the trip," he said "She has her scholarship now." That sounds much classier in academic cirles.

Ebook: The Underground History Of Public Education https[colon]//archive.org/stream/JohnTaylorGattoTheUndergroundHistoryOfAmericanEducationBook/John+Taylor+Gatto+-+The+Underground+History+of+American+Education+Book_djvu.txt
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Jun, 2019 12:26 pm
@Jewels Vern,
Quote:
People have always lived in villages and planted gardens.

The Atapuerca site in N Spain would argue against that assumption. It was clearly a small family group in several limestone caves (Occupation dates around 1.2 my-750 Ky. This is a "hunter gatherer" site where the folks engaged in cannibalism.
Hunting, and hunting/gathering has graced us with artifacts learly all of points, blades, pebble axes, etc. Cave art honored the spirits of the wild animals they used for prey, (cf Lascaux,Altamira,Chauvet. )None of the art galleries of paleolithic and early mesolithic "airbrush" doesnt show any vegetables or grains, only herds of big tasty hoofed animals(with some pries f lions in the Chauvet caves).

Yes Virginia , there wasa hunter gatherer culture before the "Village People" arrived. Your disdain of "cholars" is the same as this presidents disdain of anything that smacks of expertise. Hes got a whol herd of non-climate scientists posing as tudied scholars with xpertise IN climate sciences.

A physicist is NOT a climate scientist no matter what the administration asserts. No more than a climate scientist is an xpert on genetics.
Jewels Vern
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 4 Jun, 2019 12:17 am
@farmerman,
I would love to argue with you but your spelling is so poor I'm not sure what you are saying.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 4 Jun, 2019 05:45 am
@Jewels Vern,
I know, Im really a fool who thinks that all people are smart enough to decipher my "mal- orthography". I should really use the spell check but alas, Im always in a hurry and Ive got some other shortcomings .However, since my previous post only had about 4 misspellings and the actual jargon terms (the names of the Paleolithic cave art sites) were all correct, and, were you informed sufficiently Im sure you could have muddled your way and understood my point (That there was indeed a hunter gatherer culture that varied in age from +50K ybp to as young as 9K ybp (the paleo indian culture of the US was a hunter gatherer culture till about 8K ybp)

Your argument about "there were always villages" IMHO, is without an understanding of how ancient cultures were analyzed by paleo anthropologists.


I always have had pity for people who only had one way to spell a word. Member Om Sig DAVID? He always was a fan of phonetic spelling. I always ridiculed him but he did make a good point about it , specially for a board like this on here people of many languages pop in and out.

Is English not your first language?
Jewels Vern
 
  0  
Reply Wed 5 Jun, 2019 12:29 am
@farmerman,
I very doubt that Spanish cave dwellers had any scholars. You are off your own topic!
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Wed 5 Jun, 2019 04:28 am
@Jewels Vern,
UHH, I was responding to your post in which you brought up the incorrect assertion ,as follows,
Quote:
" You are not a student of history, you are making up your own history. For instance, the "hunter-gather" meme is baloney.People have always lived in villages and planted gardens."
Before you(incorrectly) criticize others scholarship, take care of your own.
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