50
   

Guns: how much longer will it take ....

 
 
vikorr
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2021 02:04 am
Quote:
Everything that you say about me is a lie. You have no honor and no integrity
You can spout such claims all you like...you don't back it up with anything of substance. It should be easy for you to demonstrate that I have no honor or integrity - all it would take is you linking places where you weren't racist (when white people have been involved in conflict with black people)...but of course you can't...so all you have is hot air.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  3  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2021 12:40 pm
Well, this nonsense conversation has gone on long enough
NealNealNeal
 
  0  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2021 09:57 am
@vikorr,
Concerning your debate with Ollie:
Take the quote "illegal aliens are hurting the financial situation of black people".
I believe that it is a fact. Statistics can be shown which will both support and oppose the statement.
It could also be considered an opinion.
Ollie does not lie. He believes his statements are true.
vikorr
 
  3  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2021 05:10 pm
@NealNealNeal,
As I said previously - I think it is quite rare that Oralloy lies, in that most of the things he says he believes to be the absolute truth.

The issue is that truth relies on honesty, most particularly with ones-self. Truths arrived without self-honesty are almost always flawed.

Human beings have a habit of using flawed reasoning to convince themselves that they believe something to be true, then argue from a point of view of the truth of the matter, rather than the reasoning that it is the truth. In this, many aren't willing (and here is where the issue lies) to honestly review their reasoning. Honest review needs to include: all the information / context / perspectives; to fairly apply (the observers) values to all the information when judging where and how it fits into the outcomes (including sub conclusions that lead to your overall conclusion). If it doesn't fit properly, then a review needs to be conducted again, because there is flawed reasoning being used. Once you come to a conclusion, you still need to keep an open mind that: you may have missed something, not understood a perspect / context, or similar. If you find such, then a review is again required - this is honesty. Honesty differs from truth, and truth relies on honesty for its accuracy. If someone challenges you with something that sounds credible that jars with your conclusions - a review is warranted.

In other words, a person uttering a truth not founded in self-honest evaluations, and who refuses to honestly review their reasoning, creates all sorts of conversational nightmares when you try and engage them on their reasoning.

Unfortunately, a great many people are this way in the world. It takes desire (to look inside yourself), courage (to accept that you have flaws), spirituality/morals (to want to be better), empathy (to test your conclusions / beliefs / values), and dedication (the willingness to keep doing this). Like taking up exercise - it sounds difficult at first, but becomes much easier once it becomes habitual.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2021 02:26 pm
This weekend marks the 25th anniversary of the Dunblane Massacre when 16 children and their teacher were murdered by a gunman.

Due to Covid restrictions it will be a quiet affair with church services streamed online.

The outrage at the mass shooting resulted in the Snowdrop Campaign which ultimately lead to sane gun control laws in the UK and no more school shootings.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2021 02:35 pm
@izzythepush,
Abolishing your freedom for no reason was hardly sane, and it didn't lead to a decrease in the number of massacres that your nation suffers.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2021 02:43 pm
@izzythepush,
Free people protect their children from murdering paedophile gunmen.
glitterbag
 
  4  
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2021 03:23 pm
@izzythepush,
I think we have only seen an interruption in mass shooting because of COVID and that schools have been closed. When Columbine happened the entire country was in shock and disbelief, we managed to be equally shocked after the mass shootings continued but by the time Newtown happened and children as young as 4 were butchered we were convinced something would be done to curb the violence. Well nothing was done, because the Republicans said it was too soon (don't be hasty) and Info-Wars claimed it never happened and actors portrayed the dead and injured. Parents of the Newtown children were harassed, received death threats and some had to go into hiding.

We have been bending over backwards to give the crazy, poorly informed, and perpetually aggrieved people's voice the same weight as moderate opinions. This year we saw a massive turn out of knuckle draggers actually attack our Capitol because they refuse to believe the results of an election. They've made mask wearing a test of freedom, that's how stupid they are. They will continue to blast the idea that others want to take away their 2nd amendment rights.................so when the schools return to normal capacity we will probably see more mass shootings. Thus will happened because a few terrified people don't understand that the 2nd amendment will never be removed, they don't understand how the process works, and they prefer to scream the sky is falling. So other peoples children will continue to be sacrificed to sooth the irrational fears of those of limited intellect. Their motto is "Better them than me" selfish bastards.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2021 03:30 pm
@glitterbag,
We didn’t have that much of a gun culture or history of shootings before and Dunblane really shocked the nation.
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2021 04:32 pm
U.S. House Set to Vote on Bills to Expand Gun Background Checks
Quote:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. House of Representatives is set to vote on Wednesday on a pair of bills to expand background checks before gun purchases, two years after a similar House effort failed to make it through the Senate.

. . .

The House passed two bills in 2019 to expand background checks but they were never taken up by the then-Republican-controlled Senate. Nearly all legislation in the 100-member Senate requires 60 votes and the prospects of overcoming that hurdle are uphill at best in the evenly divided chamber.

. . .

One of the bills under consideration would make it illegal for anyone who is not a licensed firearms importer, manufacturer or dealer to transfer a firearm to any unlicensed person without a background check. The bill has exemptions, including gifts from relatives and transfers for hunting, target shooting and self-defense. A version was introduced in the Senate last week.

. . .

The other bill extends the initial background check review period to 10 days from three. Under existing law, the sale of guns can proceed if a background check is not completed within three days.

. . .

The National Rifle Association’s Institute for Legislative Action (NRA-ILA) opposes both bills, arguing the three-day requirement “ensures that the FBI carries out its background check duties in an expedient and responsible manner.”

The NRA-ILA argues the other bill makes it a crime “to simply hand a firearm to another person” and suggests exceptions “are overly complicated and create many traps for unwary gun owners.”


The hunting, target shooting, and self-defense exemptions in the first bill would seem to largely moot the bill. Except for familial gifts, who transfers firearms under any other grounds, say murder or mass-shooting?
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2021 05:13 pm
@InfraBlue,
Your article is dated. The House passed both bills two days ago.

Here are the official roll calls:

https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/202175

https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/202177
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2021 05:17 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
Free people protect their children from murdering paedophile gunmen.

Indeed we do. But we could not do so if we did not have the right to have guns for self defense.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2021 05:23 pm
@oralloy,
Thanks for the update.
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2021 05:35 pm
@InfraBlue,
You're welcome.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2021 05:39 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
We didn't have that much of a gun culture or history of shootings before

Exactly. The reason why you have few massacres after you gave up your freedom is because you have always had few massacres.

You gave up your freedom for nothing.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2021 05:58 pm
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:
by the time Newtown happened and children as young as 4 were butchered we were convinced something would be done to curb the violence. Well nothing was done, because the Republicans said it was too soon (don't be hasty) and Info-Wars claimed it never happened and actors portrayed the dead and injured.

The reason why nothing was done is because the left blocks the only solution, which is for teachers to keep a rifle in their classroom.


glitterbag wrote:
Parents of the Newtown children were harassed, received death threats and some had to go into hiding.

Rightly so. Those scumbags are using their dead kids as a weapon to violate people's civil liberties.


glitterbag wrote:
They will continue to blast the idea that others want to take away their 2nd amendment rights

If progressives don't want to be attacked for violating people's civil liberties, they could always not violate people's civil liberties.


glitterbag wrote:
.................so when the schools return to normal capacity we will probably see more mass shootings. Thus will happened because a few terrified people don't understand that the 2nd amendment will never be removed, they don't understand how the process works, and they prefer to scream the sky is falling.

If massacres resume, it will be because teachers were prevented from being armed.

Actually it is you that is ignorant. Progressives regularly try to violate people's civil liberties, and for no reason other than their own entertainment.


glitterbag wrote:
So other peoples children will continue to be sacrificed to sooth the irrational fears of those of limited intellect.

There is nothing irrational about noting the fact that progressives try to violate people's civil liberties, and the fact that progressives have no actual reason for committing these violations.

Preventing progressives from violating people's civil liberties does not cost any lives.

You are the one with the limited intellect.
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2021 03:15 am
@oralloy,
the murdered children had their civil rights to life fatally violated by people exercising what you call their civil liberties. Only sociopaths consider that an acceptable trade-off.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2021 11:20 am
@MontereyJack,
That is incorrect. Our civil liberties have never resulted in a single homicide.

But if it had actually been the case that civil liberties cause homicides, most of America would consider it an acceptable trade off.
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2021 06:08 pm
@oralloy,
your "civil liberties" RESULT in some 12,000 homicides a year, and, no, most Americans do NOT consider that an "acceptable trade-off, only the socioipaths do,", certainly not the grieving parents whose kids were murdered by someone with a legally purchased firearm exercising their "civil liberties".
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2021 06:16 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
your "civil liberties" result on some 12000 homicides a year,

Wrong. Preventing you from outlawing pistol grips does not result in a single homicide.


MontereyJack wrote:
and, no, most sane people do NOT consider that a reasonable trade-off, only the sociopaths do.

Some 40,000 people a year are killed in car accidents because people are allowed to drive cars on public roads.

Using your logic, only sociopaths would approve of allowing people to drive cars.
 

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