57
   

Guns: how much longer will it take ....

 
 
MontereyJack
 
  0  
Reply Tue 28 Apr, 2020 01:00 am
@oralloy,
going off the rails is thinking the argument is about pistol grips in the first place.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 28 Apr, 2020 01:01 am
@MontereyJack,
Here are two posts where you have called for and praised efforts to ban pistol grips on long guns:

https://able2know.org/topic/203766-209#post-5227079

https://able2know.org/topic/355218-2108#post-6598060
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Apr, 2020 01:03 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
GM was so mismanaged and ossified the whole enterprise was in danger of collapse. If Obama hadn't forced them kicking and screaming to get new management, there would be no GM today. GM certainly has never enticed me. I've had I think ten cars, and none were GM. I gave them lots of chances and they never came thru.

None of that changes the fact that there was no reason not to restructure and save Pontiac.

None of that changes the fact that Pontiac would be selling a lot of Trans Ams today if they had been saved.

Most of Pontiac's problems were imposed on them by GM. Had Pontiac been saved from GM's mismanagement they would have thrived.
MontereyJack
 
  0  
Reply Tue 28 Apr, 2020 01:06 am
@oralloy,
If I ran gm i'd have axed buick and kept Pontiac, but they apparently thought stodge was their market. I've never particularly cared what gm thought.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 28 Apr, 2020 01:07 am
@MontereyJack,
People in China buy a lot of Buicks. Better to keep both.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  0  
Reply Tue 28 Apr, 2020 01:44 am
@oralloy,
im not sure about trans ams. the bottom has dropped out of the sedan market and as I remember (and I wasn't paying much attention because it was gm). they were pretty slow getting into the suv market ecept for the pontiac aztekwhich bombed because it was thought so ugly tho today iis mainstream.
MontereyJack
 
  0  
Reply Tue 28 Apr, 2020 01:46 am
@oralloy,
read thme again. Ive pointed out why youre wrong. Youre wrong.
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Apr, 2020 02:50 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
read them again.

Those posts show you praising efforts to outlaw pistol grips on semi-auto long guns.


MontereyJack wrote:
I've pointed out why you're wrong.

Your denials of reality do not make me wrong.


MontereyJack wrote:
Youre wrong.

No. You are on record praising the outlawing of pistol grips.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 28 Apr, 2020 03:20 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
im not sure about trans ams.

People like sports cars. And if there is one thing that Pontiac knew how to make, it was sports cars.

Pontiac actually invented the muscle car. The 1964 GTO option was the world's first muscle car. All other muscle cars were merely GTO imitations.

And Pontiac kept improving the power of the GTO all through the muscle car era. The 69-70 GTO Judge with a Ram Air IV engine was one of the most powerful cars ever made. It would even be able to hold its own against a modern sports car today.

After tightening fuel and emissions standards greatly reduced engine performance in the early 1970s, all the other automakers gave up building muscle cars. Post-71 cars from the other automakers just had weaker and weaker versions of their formerly powerful engines. But not Pontiac. When all the other brands gave up, Pontiac went back to the drawing board and developed a brand new muscle car engine (the Super Duty) for the 73 and 74 Trans Am.

After even tighter fuel and emissions standards doomed the Super Duty engine, Pontiac went back to the drawing board yet again, and in 1977 they came out with the 400 T/A 6.6 engine (the Smokey and the Bandit era engine). Camaro and Corvette engines by this time were pretty pathetic, and Pontiac's production of a real sports car embarrassed Chevy into boosting engine performance in their sports cars.

So in short, Pontiac invented the muscle car. They produced one of the most powerful muscle cars. And they kept the high performance torch burning all through the dark days of the 1970s when all the other automakers gave up on real performance.

If GM wanted Pontiac to sell cars, all they needed to do was remove the bureaucratic shackles and let Pontiac engineers do what they did best.
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Apr, 2020 04:34 am
@oralloy,
wrong. what I was praising was relaxing the standards for banning weapons, which included weapons that didn't even have a pistol grip. Pistol grips have always been and still are only your personal red herring. And since we are now a quarter century past the assault weapons (sic) ban, it's past time to enact another one, which should be for semi auto weapons with detachable magazines. No more pussyfooting around.
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Apr, 2020 04:49 am
@oralloy,
muscle cars and sports carswere always a niche market and not a particularly profitable one.
gm execs were focused on the bottom line and wanted their money invested to garner a higher return, and sales of muscle cars didn't get that in areas where it's not 70 degrees all year. . I've always thought sports cars were more interesting myself, muscle cars were hulking unsophisticated. And now of course suvs are pretty much killing off sedans and sportier American cars because they're in general better adapted to modern needs,particularly where it's not 70 degrees all year. Most car buyers today think trans ams are so last century. Not saying I agree, but that's the way it is and car makers adapt to the reality. Ask a kid toda what car he wants, you'll be surprised. Its not trans ams, but an suv or gods above a pickup truck or not even transport at all but a hella fast gaming computer. Face it, we're obsolescent.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 28 Apr, 2020 10:21 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
wrong. what I was praising was relaxing the standards for banning weapons, which included weapons that didn't even have a pistol grip.

While you did praise the outlawing of other harmless features besides pistol grips, pistol grips were among the list of harmless features that you praised outlawing.

It is just as much a civil liberties violation to outlaw those other harmless features. Had I named barrel shrouds or flash suppressors or bayonet lugs instead of naming pistol grips, the effect would have been entirely the same.


MontereyJack wrote:
Pistol grips have always been and still are only your personal red herring.

When progressives try to outlaw pistol grips, it's not a red herring to point out that fact.

Progressives in general are still focused on pistol grips (and barrel shrouds and flash suppressors and bayonet lugs) even if you are not.


MontereyJack wrote:
And since we are now a quarter century past the assault weapons (sic) ban, it's past time to enact another one, which should be for semi auto weapons with detachable magazines. No more pussyfooting around.

There is no justification for outlawing such weapons. With five round magazines a semi-auto rifle is no deadlier than a common hunting rifle.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 28 Apr, 2020 10:22 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
muscle cars and sports carswere always a niche market and not a particularly profitable one.
gm execs were focused on the bottom line and wanted their money invested to garner a higher return, and sales of muscle cars didn't get that in areas where it's not 70 degrees all year..

They sure sold a lot of them. Why wouldn't there have been a profit?


MontereyJack wrote:
I've always thought sports cars were more interesting myself, muscle cars were hulking unsophisticated.

The 1969-1970 Ram Air IV engine was offered in Trans Ams as well, not just in GTOs.

It was among the most powerful engines in a Trans Am body as well.


MontereyJack wrote:
And now of course suvs are pretty much killing off sedans and sportier American cars because they're in general better adapted to modern needs, particularly where it's not 70 degrees all year.

Sedans appear to be doomed, but I've not noticed any harm to the sports cars market.


MontereyJack wrote:
Most car buyers today think trans ams are so last century. Not saying I agree, but that's the way it is and car makers adapt to the reality.

That might have something to do with the fact that Pontiac was forced to stop making them after 2002, and then was closed down instead of being allowed to resume making them.

If new Trans Ams were being sold today, they would be just as modern as the Camaros and Mustangs and Challengers that are being sold today.


MontereyJack wrote:
Ask a kid toda what car he wants, you'll be surprised. Its not trans ams, but an suv or gods above a pickup truck or not even transport at all but a hella fast gaming computer. Face it, we're obsolescent.

There are plenty of kids who desire Camaros or Mustangs or Challengers.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Apr, 2020 10:34 am
@MontereyJack,
Monty, your being unreasonable. If we did away with simiautomitic weapons with detachable magazines we would have to load our weapon by hand. Maybe 39 seconds to load 10 rounds? It would make it damn near impossible to kill 30 people in 30 seconds. Please rethink the problem.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 28 Apr, 2020 10:44 am
@RABEL222,
You could achieve the same effect by simply restricting detachable rifle magazines to five rounds.

But even that is unnecessary because you could also simply stop massacres with red flag laws and tighter background checks.

But even that is unnecessary because you could also simply stop massacres by allowing people to carry guns in public, which they have a Constitutional right to do anyway.
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Apr, 2020 11:45 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
MontereyJack wrote:
I've always thought sports cars were more interesting myself, muscle cars were hulking unsophisticated.

The 1969-1970 Ram Air IV engine was offered in Trans Am sports cars as well, not just in GTO muscle cars.
It was still one of the most powerful engines when it was placed in a Trans Am body instead of a GTO body.

https://www.musclecardefinition.com/legendary-1969-pontiac-firebird-trans-am-ram-air-iv-400/

MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Apr, 2020 02:15 pm
@oralloy,
No they don't
t, and no they don't seem to.
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Tue 28 Apr, 2020 02:21 pm
@oralloy,
Mrs. Betty Bowers, America's Best Christian, debates, er, herself on guns.

MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Tue 28 Apr, 2020 02:23 pm
@oralloy,
they were much better in a straight line than anywhere else
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 28 Apr, 2020 07:03 pm
@MontereyJack,
That is incorrect. Trans Ams handled corners extremely well.
0 Replies
 
 

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